MSN Beta Results

[freakmode]

Probably a question for OWG

I think we have picked up a penalty for too many keywords placed in ALT tag on our index page splash logo. Ranks well on Google but gone from MSN.

If I chop up the splash logo into say 8 smaller slices (which I should do I guess anyway) and place a single keyword behind each slice, would this still be seen as black hat?

David

[OldWelshGuy]

First off, MSN is no longer in Beta, it is live across the MSN network, so these are the results that the world is seeing.

The SE algos pretty much ignore the alt attribute, other than to detect spam if abused. I would be tempted to remove the stuffing altogether and replace it with a clear description of the image as per w3c guidelines. eg 'site logo of girl showing body piercings and wearing body jewllery'

Here are the MSn guidelines for sites. (I have bolded something of interest)

Technical recommendations for your website
Use only well-formed HTML code in your pages. Ensure that all tags are closed, and that all links function properly. If your site contains broken links, MSNBot may not be able to index your site effectively, and people may not be able to reach all of your pages.
If you move a page, set up the page's original URL to direct people to the new page, and tell them whether the move is permanent or temporary.
Make sure MSNBot is allowed to crawl your site, and is not on your list of web crawlers that are prohibited from indexing your site.
Use a robots.txt file or meta tags to control how MSNBot and other web crawlers index your site. The robots.txt file tells web crawlers which files and folders it is not allowed to crawl. The Web Robots Pages provide detailed information on the robots.txt Robots Exclusion standard.
Keep your URLs simple and static. Complicated or frequently changed URLs are difficult to use as link destinations. For example, the URL www.example.com/mypage is easier for MSNBot to crawl and for people to type than a long URL with multiple extensions. Also, a URL that doesn't change is easier for people to remember, which makes it a more likely link destination from other sites.
Content guidelines for your website
The best way to attract people to your site, and keep them coming back, is to design your pages with valuable content that your target audience is interested in.

In the visible page text, include words users might choose as search query terms to find the information on your site.
Limit all pages to a reasonable size. We recommend one topic per page. An HTML page with no pictures should be under 150 KB.
Make sure that each page is accessible by at least one static text link.
Create a site map that is fairly flat (i.e., each page is only one to three clicks away from the home page). Links embedded in menus, list boxes, and similar elements are not accessible to web crawlers unless they appear in your site map.
Keep the text that you want indexed outside of images. For example, if you want your company name or address to be indexed, make sure it is displayed on your page outside of a company logo.
Items and techniques discouraged by MSN Search
The following items and techniques are not appropriate uses of the index. Use of these items and techniques may affect how your site is ranked within MSN Search and may result in the removal of your site from the MSN Search index.

Loading pages with irrelevant words in an attempt to increase a page's keyword density. This includes stuffing ALT tags that users are unlikely to view. Using hidden text or links. You should use only text and links that are visible to users.
Using techniques to artificially increase the number of links to your page, such as link farms.

[freakmode]

Thanks OWG

I'll go take a look and have a bit of a fiddle with the content etc.

We are tripping something as we have all of our pages in the index but are showing decent serps for nil on MSN. Even on specific search terms.

[OldWelshGuy]

My money is on the alt stuffing. I would also consider using a H1 or h2 on your main terms on the front page, and I know it might sound silly, but that grey sitemap at the foot of the page is awfully close to invisible text, I would consider taking it waway from grey to a blue and make it a little darker. The problem is that no one is sure at what point links are treated as invisible, so it is better to air on the side of caution IMO.

[freakmode]

Hi again OWG

Am I right in thinking that MSN displays regional results? As we host with 1and1 our IP resolves to Germany. I have just moved our .co.uk from a 301 redirect onto a fasthosts server. I will try and put up some content and backlinks and see what happens. I will also stop spidering from Google via the htaccess and cross my fingers.

[OldWelshGuy]

Yes the new MSn delivers based on location. It delivers content with a total bias towards location. (physical location) One worldwide search on msn.co.uk returned 8million, while the same phrase on.com returned 40 million.