Network hardware advice

[fleetwood]

Have slapped my money down for Multiuser, I thought it might be an idea to properly network my computers together!

I am looking for advice on which hardware to buy (having carried out some basic network reading, I'm aware of the basics, but not too sure what level of hardware I need).

I am planning on networking togther 3-4 PC's, plus a couple of printers, and probably some shared storage. Unlikley all will be in use at the same time, and probably the most data intensive work will be Actinic Business MU.

The computers are already equipped with on board 10/100 cards.
Is there any real benefit upgrading to gigabit cards for this size of network?

Likewise, with switches - do I need gigabit, or is 10/100 likely to suffice?

Any brands that are good, bad or ugly?

Its not a huge investment to go to gigabit, just didn't want to waste my money by replacing equipment thats already there, if this is overkill for this size of network.

Any advice from those in the know would be appreciated.

[wjcampbe]

JMHO - some may disagree, but 10/100 should suit just fine. Same with the switch 10/100 should be fine, but get extra ports so that if one port goes bad, you can just move that connection to another port - not that it happens often with modern switches - just that the price difference between an 8 port and a 16/24 is next to nothing.

Nothing you are moving internally is likely to benefit from the difference between 10/100 and gigabit, and the router/adsl connection will act as a bottleneck for in/outbound traffic.

[pinbrook]

I also go the route of "layering" my network to produce extra security. ie my mostsensitive PC is inside 2 routers/firewall, the less sensitive ones are inside one.

My preference is for netgear routers.

I'm still a supporter of wired rather than wireless. Have awkwardly located Pcs wireless or laptop etc, but for the best reliability hard wire the crucial aspects.

[fleetwood]

Thanks Bill and Jo
Have been looking at Netgear, as they seem reasonably priced, but wasn't to sure about quality - thanks for the reassurance.

The overall cost difference between 100 and 1000 for my number of PCs isn't huge, its just that as the PC's already have 10/100 cards on board, and the reading I had done seemed to suggest that 1000 is only really necessary for large scale networks, video or gaming, I thought I would be safe sticking with 100 - again thanks for the reassurance.

Agree about wired connection - I think wireless is good in theory, but less practical (both security and function wise) in a business envionment, esp with the thick walls in our old shop.

We have a BT Network 1200 (2Wire) Router with built in hardware firewall for the broadband connection. Does a second one offer any further protection Jo, and if so, how does one set that up? The router currently connects to the main PC - with my newly planned set up, am I better off with:

Router connects to PC via USB - PC connect to switch -

or

PC connect to switch
Router connect to switch


Finally, even though its a small network, I was planning on using 2 switches - one next to main PC (to handle the PC, broadband router, printer and external storage), and the second next to the other grouping of PC's - rather than running all cabling back to just the one. This way I only need one long cable run between the two groups of equipment, connecting the 2 switches. Is this OK / normal?

[wjcampbe]

Router connects to PC via USB - PC connect to switch -

or

PC connect to switch
Router connect to switch


Finally, even though its a small network, I was planning on using 2 switches - one next to main PC (to handle the PC, broadband router, printer and external storage), and the second next to the other grouping of PC's - rather than running all cabling back to just the one. This way I only need one long cable run between the two groups of equipment, connecting the 2 switches. Is this OK / normal?

In a peer to peer network/workgroup then PC to switch, router/modem to switch. If you switch to a server based setup, then a more normal approach would be server and pc's to switch. Second server network card to router modem.

Using two small switches and a crossover link between the two can add a little complication, depending on the switches you use. Some switches can only use certain ports for cross connection and need a specially wired cable.

If you go the two switch route, it's worthwhile siting both in central locations compared to the machines they serve, so you can have spare cable(s) made to a fixed length and just swap out any problem cable, and also having a spare for the cross connection.

Have you worked out where you will do your DHCP and DNS? Does your router/modem have this ability?

[fleetwood]

Have you worked out where you will do your DHCP and DNS? Does your router/modem have this ability?

OK, this is where you start going beyond my very basic networking knowledge

My setup to date (which has been running for a few years), is to plug the broadband router/firewall into PC 1 (complete with wireless card), and a wireless adapter into PC 2. All setups were fairly standard and automated ie I don't remember having to learn much about anything to set it up - just followed the simple instructions that came with the box.
The two PC's share files via Win XP Home, and the braodband connection over the wireless connection.

The idea now is to make for a more robust and slightly more sophisticated wired network.

I have no idea what DHCP or DNS is all about I'm afraid, or whether my router has that ability (its the router BT supplied with my broadband - is called BT Network 1200, and is made by 2Wire) - I guess I have more reading to do!
Please clue me in where possible.

The idea of having 2 switches was that I didn't need to run long cables (two groups of equipment are 15m apart with 2 walls between them). I thought if I put connection points (which I assumed were the switches), near each group of machines, and then connect the two switches with one cable run, that would be OK. If this is the wrong way to go about it, I'm happy to learn.

[pinbrook]

Is a prerequisite of sophistication being able to spell it

Sorry Martin...

[wjcampbe]

Martin,

2 switches will work, is OK and as normal as anything else in the PC world :wink: - just when you buy them you have to tell the guy you want to interconnect them to make sure he sells you the right kit (i.e. if you need a crossover link cable, he sells you a crossover link cable as part of your kit - and clearly marks which one it is).

DHCP is one method for each PC in your internal network to get its internal address. (there are several bands of addresses allocated by IANA for internal use including 10.0.0.0 - 255 and 192.168.0.1 - 192,168.255.255). Using this method, you set the range of addresses on the DHCP control item (be it router/switch/server or PC with a fixed address) and when you switch on any of the equipment, it gets allocated an available number. The alternative is to pre-assign the numbers and hard code them into the PC network connection setup.

DNS is how each machine translates the website and network PC names into the numbered addresses. Again setting router/server/pc as DNS enabled and then setting that equipment address as the 'gateway' on each of the other machines, means only one address translation table is kept and shared by all the networked PCs.

Can you enter an address in your browser and connect to your BT modem/router - or did they not share that little gem with you - you may need the help of an installation technician to get that bit sorted out? I use my own kit and only have the provider switch the service(s) on. They tend not to like giving you the dirty details about the settings, but I can be persuasive....

[fleetwood]

Bill
Never had to get involved with that addressing gobble-de-gook (looks to Jo for spellcheck ) - in past the router seems to have done it all for me after plugging in (plug and play and all that).

However, I'm not a slouch, and will read up/learn where necessary - just gimme a day or two to take it all in .

Jo
No offence taken Jo
I'm actually not that bad at spelling (although sophistication did slip by... cough), but am very guilty of the "type fast, check for typos later" syndrome!

[wjcampbe]

Add it to the resume, Martin. (Network Administrator, that is - not sophisticate )

[chris ashdown]

Can you enter an address in your browser and connect to your BT modem/router - or did they not share that little gem with you - you may need the help of an installation technician to get that bit sorted out? I use my own kit and only have the provider switch the service(s) on. They tend not to like giving you the dirty details about the settings, but I can be persuasive....

Martin on my one from BT the BT Voyager 2100 the access code is 192.168.1.1 so if you type that in as a URL on internet explorer it will probably go to your set up details on the router

Thats it I am even less knowlegable than you, so hope to learn something here for when I go MU

[fleetwood]

Thanks for the help.

I know there are some of those number things (non technical term for DN whatsits ) in the 2wire gateway setup software, so will take a look asap.

Bill - will regards connecting the switches, my understanding is that I can connect any 2 switches node to node, so long as I use a crossover cable, although some switches do come with a special upload socket (or something sounding like that!), which means they can be connected directly with a straight through cable, instead of a crossover one.
Does that sound right, or have I got it wrong?

[wjcampbe]

Martin, I wish it was that simple. The ones with the 'special' port restriction are the ones that usually need the crossover cable.

It really depends on what you buy. Are you looking at 2 x 8-port or 2 x 12 port for example? Some switches (Cisco as an example - but not even all Cisco's) need the connection to run from the last port on the far away switch to the first port on the near switch, with the modem/router on the last port of that switch. On those switches you are likely to need a crossover cable.

Others (D-Link are a primary example) can be chained or starred with any number of switches and these are connected with ordinary cables to any number of ports.

I'm actually more familiar with the 24 port switches myself, though I do use a Belkin 4-port in my own domestic network, so it really is worth discussing with whoever you are buying from.

[acompton]

I know there are some of those number things (non technical term for DN whatsits )

Just to add to the lesson for today, they are called IP Addresses.

Also, gigabit networks are normally used when you want to stream large amount of data, like video.

Alan

[fleetwood]

Cheers Bill
I have already tried to pick my way through the various specs of switches on dabs site, only to be confused by (s)witch is (s)witch , but at least you have given me something to look out for.
I was looking at Netgear FS605UK 5 port 10/100 x2 (£16.35 each at Dabs), but will now be looking at 8 ports after your tip about allowing for dud ports.
Whether these do the trick and/or allow switch-to-switch cabling I shall investigate further.

Why is life never simple?

So this month I will be mostly reading

"Integrated HTML & CSS" coutesy of Jonty - it certainly is a 'dry' read, but I feel its time I learn't a bit about this CSS malarky.

"Networking - its as straight forward as plugging 2 wires in - NOT!" by Will B Worthit

"Actinic8 The Ultimate Guide" by Monsieur C Dicken - a fine seaside read to be sure

Thanks as ever for all the advice.