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**pinbrook** · 03-Jul-2007, 06:21 PM

Ok this is how I think.....

1 - For people who do not search, what good will it do to have a KB full of articles? Is the intention to fill up the KB and then when people post duplicate questions, we direct to the KB instead of the search facility? How is that going to be more acceptable and more importantly, how does that reduce the junk in the forum, i don't get it?

we can't stop people from posting before searching BUT the KB will have one question one answer so hopefully easier to point people to. Searching the forum often brings up too many results where it is difficult to find the reply you need

2 - The forum naturally keep itself up to date with issues and best solutions, it does this naturally as it is an evolving reference point. When you choose to take something out of that flow and into the KB, are you not introducing a reference point which will ultimately be out of date and require constant housekeeping? Have you ever played Trivial Pursuit with 2 year old questions? - you'll catch my drift. The post re flash integration being a prime example today.

same reply as above, and because it will require more housekeeping it should be cleaner

3 - We are attempting to sort out the forum and make a better reference point for new users, yet the first place they are referred to (the forum) is not going to have anything different? Whats changing? is increasing the KB, not completely missing the point?

we have to accept the forum will always be trashy and bloated aswell as being the most upto date - anyone can post to the forum, if you have the skills to find stuff the forum is still going to be better, but the KB will only be maintained by Actinic.

At the mo we can refer someone to a thread in the forum that might have 20 replies, the person being sent to that thread then has to interpret al lthe posts, if there is a KB item you can refer people to it will be in the form Q and A - simpler to understand.

In my view alot of the problem solvers should be added to KB, and thus rewritten into Q/A rather than the current format where some of them are long threads that require interpretation.

I feel we are both aiming to acheive the same thing Lee, we've each got a slightly different angle on how to do it.

At the end of the day we both want everyone to be able to find the info more easily. In an ideal world, 100% of people will search before they post, but this will never happen but it shouldn't stop us from trying to build a better resource and hope that we can increase the number of people who will search and ultimately find.

I've noticed an increasing number of posts where people now say they've searched without sucess, thats our current issue - searching is easy but finding is something else .

**leehack** · 03-Jul-2007, 06:39 PM

Hmm Ok didn't think i'd missed anything. Hows about the articles you have listed are started as new threads, with correct titles for the search to find them along with JUST the correct info inside and then they have a direct link in the problem solvers thread.

They then have no junk included in them, they have a direct link straight to the answer in the problem solvers thread and they are available in the forum where most people arrive. They can be easily updated and all threads of this sort should be given a 5 -star rating automatically. We then have a forum of 40-50 threads, all 5 star rated and all refernced in the problem solvers thread.

I like your ideas, i just think it is flawed as its hiding the info away into the KB which nobody uses, whereas it should come into the forum which everyone uses.

Remember, the problem solvers thread has had no advertising, it is just a sticky and has succeeded on it's own. If that was complete and up to date with the common problems - i think it would be very acceptable to provide a link to it for duplicate posts, if these duplicate posts were then picked up on a search, at least they all point to one central place - i.e. the problem solvers thread.

Sound good or not? I think that merges the best of both solutions, but still gives us control as we can't rely on actinic in this area.

**pinbrook** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:15 PM

I just think its worth building on the KB and get it to be somewhere that is viable as a resource in its own right - it has a better search facility than the forum and is less cluttered and is only editable by Actinic. Actinic acknowledges they've neglected it of late so it could be made better.

I think the forum is great and is still my first stop but everyday its getting more and more unwieldly and thus is becoming to difficult to find things in. We are all agreed we can't stop people continually asking the same Qs, which then come up in results when people search thus compounding the issue.

Even if my proposed KB items were transposed to individual forum posts they can still be added to by anyone, thus diluting their effectiveness, I see them as 2 parts only Q and A, not Q and A followed by loads of other stuff.

by being in the KB they are not editable and thus more sucinct. Others have already added to the current conversation on forum relevance by saying you find a thread with the correct info within it but then have to navigate through 40 posts in order to find an answer, the KB bypasses this.

To be honest i'll go along with the consensus, if the majority want to stay with the forum and think I'm going up a blind alley then I'll join the majority.

**leehack** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:27 PM

Post them in the main forum and get the mods to lock them, so they can only be read, they then show up in searches too. They need to give mods rights to a few members OR get their fingers out of their backsides and help a little. We could happily (with correct rights) sort it out in 24 hours flat. If we wait for their red-tape it could be much longer.

I think the KB is dying a slow death and should be left in peace to die. It is hard enough trying to get people to think for themselves without bringing in a whole new URL they need to visit. Lets help them use something they already do, than show them how to use something they don't IMO.

But like you, i am happy to go with the general consensus.

**TraceyHand** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:34 PM

Ok, if I may join this discussion?

I like the KB. I have used it a lot in the past (even for V8) but I don't think it's used nearly as much as the forums/searches.
I'm sure that a lot of new posters don't even know it's there.

So..if the "customers" are coming to the forums, then I guess that's probably the best place to focus the information (when properly filtered etc)

Much as I do prefer to use the KB, I find that its search isn't very good either. Often even topics that I know are covered in there, I can't find on my first attempt (much like the forums, but for different reasons)

I think moving the KB *into* the forums might be the way to go...but, of course, that's just my opinion.

**pinbrook** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:38 PM

The more the merrier, this isn't the lee/jo show.

Although if the KB were better- wouldn't you use it? this is my quest.

**TraceyHand** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:45 PM

yes, Jo....*I* would..but I suspect the tendancies of new members is still to head straight for the forum (and, most of the time, without searching first)

The KB isn't "in your face" enough, for one thing. But yes, if the info was there, it would be a better place to refer people to than the current forum threads.

Often a forum thread solution to a problem is spread over several entries (and sometimes several threads..just look at the whole Paypal fiasco right now)...which isn't a "one stop" solution even when referred to as a "solution"

Somewhere...all this info needs bringing together and I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that it's Actinic's responsibility to be doing this...not forum members/users.

If ALL forum solutions are put into the KB swiftly and in their entirity (and this will make many KB entries more detailed than they currently are) then it could, over time, be the place people are first referred to rather than previous theads/forum searches.

Am I on the fence then? LOL...probably!

**wjcampbe** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:47 PM

Lee,

Although I would have used different phraseology to analyse the problem, I believe you hit the pointed wire on the flat bit - but just slightly off target.

I believe an ability to mark the exact post in each thread that contains the answer, triggering a flag that bubbles that thread to the top of the search, leaving threads with no useful answer languishing on page 17 of the search results, combined with subclassification of threads to functional areas would provide a better resource.

I still don't favour a 'Newbies' board, because that defeats the idea of subclassing the main board and will lead to duplicate posts - one for the 'newbies' and a second correctly classified response for the old scotsman wilting in the egyptian heat who cannot recall how to get the innerlayout to centralise between the left and right navigation.

**Duncan Rounding** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:57 PM

I think that the KB can work well - just as the AUG has. Trying to isolate questions, discussions leading to useful information, and other snippets from the forum would be a nightmare - Lee's (very useful) sticky's proof of that and is ideal info for the KB.

I do think that it's difficult to decide whats for the AUG and what's for the KB - perhaps they will blend at some stage.

The KB should be far easier to use than the forum - they're only fragments after all I presume.

(Maybe Bill can even modify his Act2pdf to create a pdf of it for download)

**leehack** · 03-Jul-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by budgetbumps

Ok, if I may join this discussion?

Paranoia will destroy ya! I've never stopped anyone or commented on anyone doing anything in the threads i start and i never will. Freedom is just that - to be free, especially of rules.

It's very important for us to think as newbies, not experienced members and because of this i think Tracey got it spot on. It's not a case of whether KB is better than the forum, it is about what is going to be used the most, which i do not think can be argued.

A KB is great for us, but not newbies IMO and we do not need to use the KB as we know how or who who wrote the post in the forum with our answer.

Jo's ideas and Bill's comments are absolutely correct in that a thread with 60 posts does not highlight where the answer is, BUT, do not let that make you think that it needs to come out of the forum and into the KB, all that is needed is for the info to be extracted (like Jo has been doing) and into a locked thread (similar to the KB method). So we end up with the KB solution in the most popular place - i think that's win win on all accounts.

**pinbrook** · 03-Jul-2007, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by wjcampbe

Lee,

I believe you hit the pointed wire on the flat bit - but just slightly off target.

I'd love to know what this means?

**TraceyHand** · 03-Jul-2007, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by leehack

Paranoia will destroy ya! I've never stopped anyone or commented on anyone doing anything in the threads i start and i never will. Freedom is just that - to be free, especially of rules.

I wasn't asking for permission, per se....I was more just being polite..it's the new me

Originally posted by leehack

all that is needed is for the info to be extracted (like Jo has been doing) and into a locked thread (similar to the KB method). So we end up with the KB solution in the most popular place - i think that's win win on all accounts.

I agree...as long as Actinic views this as their job...not ours/yours/whoevers

**pinbrook** · 03-Jul-2007, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by budgetbumps

Often a forum thread solution to a problem is spread over several entries (and sometimes several threads..just look at the whole Paypal fiasco right now)...which isn't a "one stop" solution even when referred to as a "solution"

Somewhere...all this info needs bringing together and I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that it's Actinic's responsibility to be doing this...not forum members/users.

If ALL forum solutions are put into the KB swiftly and in their entirity (and this will make many KB entries more detailed than they currently are) then it could, over time, be the place people are first referred to rather than previous theads/forum searches.

Yep this is what needs to happen, once the paypal issue has been resolved it needs to be reduced to one post - and posted either as an non - editable forum post or KB

but theres the problem - how do do make sure the recent definative answer is then fed as a search result and floats to the top? this is where the KB shoudl be better.

Here's a radical idea - a sub forum that only certain members can post to - ie a kb sub forum within the forum, and no replies allowed

**Stereo Steve** · 03-Jul-2007, 08:10 PM

For the record, I usually check the KB first and then search second. Although, I have to admit of late, I have ignored the KB due to lack of success in finding answers.

Personally, I think the KB is valuable and should be maintained. As an example, I recently discovered a bug where the last state of the last country is lost in v8 when you upload. Support confirmed it and I was able to solve it. However, I recently wanted to point somebody to it but was unable to find the thread (I didn't start it) where it was discussed and where I posted the bug report (I thought it would be usefull for anyone else searching the problem).

If I can't find a thread I posted on, what hope has a newbie? A KB article would surely be much easier to find.

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