Customer unhappy with item - help

[gobeyond007]

refund

Hello
I've just had an unhappy customer on the phone - she ordered an album with presentation box (product code AS02 here http://www.nattynetty.co.uk/acatalog...crapbooks.html ). She says it wasn't what she was expecting as it is textured and the picture on the website doesn't show this (I think it does). She then said that she thinks I sent her the wrong one as the one she wanted didn't mention a presentation box. I have double-checked her order and she definitely ordered this one which I sent her. She insists I must've sent the wrong one and that my website isn't clear.

Anyway, she wants to return it and recieve a refund for it plus for her postage costs (it'll cost her about £8 to send back). I have said that I'll be happy to refund the cost of the album but she'll have to pay to return it. She got stroppy and I said I'd call her back after I'd discussed it with another member of staff.

Where do I stand? I'm under the impression she has to pay the cost to return it as it's not been sent in error by me and it's not faulty.

Please help

that happened to a friend of mine

[fleetwood]

quiet franklee Im disgusTed to read all this I was going two order a lot of things (at leest £200 each) from everyone that has ritten above but now Im not and Im going two tell all my fiends not too order from all of ewe two and I want commonsation for the time it haz taken me to rite this when I cud have been wotchin a film

[guccij]

quiet franklee Im disgusTed to read all this I was going two order a lot of things (at leest £200 each) from everyone that has ritten above but now Im not and Im going two tell all my fiends not too order from all of ewe two and I want commonsation for the time it haz taken me to rite this when I cud have been wotchin a film

An u no wot? I hav bad tiniters and ur earplugs cud hav mad it worser an u wudnt wont 2 b negligee of that.

(an only slightly less literate version of a customer email from last week)

[grantglendinnin]

You'll all still feel s**t on Monday morning when all those potential repeat customers see you taking the piss out of their English!

One of the earliest online promotion techniques I was told - always include a link to your site in your e-mail signature - it's like free backlinks from those who hate you, try it out, maybe the little boys and girls will copy your replies onto their freewebs site - or if you're really lucky, you might even get a few backlinks from Myspace if you're lucky

Ah, simple things

[chris ashdown]

Regarding your legal obligations... A basic summary of the Consumer Protection Act, as I understand it. Feel free to correct me.

1. Customer buys something mail order
2. Customer receives item, unpacks it decides they don't really like it
3. Customer has to inform you in writing (email/letter/fax) that they intend to return item. If you have informed the customer of their right to cancel, they have 7 working days to do this. If you have not informed them of their right to cancel, they have 3 calendar months.
4. Customer returns item at their own expense
5. You recieve item in unused, resaleable condition
6. If they have returned everything, you issue full refund including delivery costs to customer. If they have only returned part of the order, you just refund those items and they pay the delivery costs.

PS. Your product looks textured to me. Costomer (that's what I call these people) must have a crap monitor.

The DSR actuall expect the seller to pay for the return of the goods, not the customer, but the customer does have a duty of care of the item

Some Trading standards do seem to accept that the customer should pay to return the goods if its stated in T&C but thats definatly not strickly what the DSR says

Personaly I think we are all lucky that nobody is going to be willing to take someone to court over such a small sum

All goes back to days of the mail order catalogue where they set up free returns as part of the deal along with weekly terms and as many samples to try on as you like

[grantglendinnin]

Some Trading standards do seem to accept that the customer should pay to return the goods if its stated in T&C but thats definatly not strickly what the DSR says

Just to confirm the UK's Trading Standards did confirm when I contacted them for advice on such details that it is in fact illegal to charge customers to return items (strictly, unless they simply did not want the item). I was also advised it is against UK consumer law to charge any form of 'restocking' or 'handling' fee unless the order is 'taylor made' or ordered in by the seller (ie. from a supplier) solely for the intention of supplying to their customer.

I'm yet to find any company that sticks strictly to what trading standards say anyway. IMO, they're almost ineffective and completely useless - complain to them about issues which all the major super markets have been fined for in recent years and they turn a blind eye to it, you tell me who's slipping the back handers

[TraceyHand]

Just to confirm the UK's Trading Standards did confirm when I contacted them for advice on such details that it is in fact illegal to charge customers to return items (strictly, unless they simply did not want the item).

'unless they simply did not want the item'

I think this is usually the cases that we are talking about though. The majority of the time, returns are 'not as expected' returns where the customer (as long as it's in your T&Cs) can be expected to pay for return postage.

[fleetwood]

potential repeat customers see you taking the piss out of their English

its not the bad English thats being taking the piss out of - its the pathetic "I was going to spend loads of money" and "you owe me compensation" lines thats some cretins come out with. The bad English just seems to accompany such garbage, for some inexplicable reason

An unhappy customer should recieve your immediate and full attention.

A rude and obnoxious 'customer' who makes unresaonable and sometimes extortinate demands, often because they have made a f**k up when placing the order, does not deserve such attention IMHO.

That sort of 'repeat' custom, some of us can live without

[leehack]

for some inexplicable reason

The reason is IQ, you'd do well to find a pulse on most of these people.

[fleetwood]

The DSR actuall expect the seller to pay for the return of the goods, not the customer, but the customer does have a duty of care of the item

I don't think this is correct Chris.
If the customer cancels (as opposed to claims damaged goods), it is their responsibility to return the goods in good condition and at their own expense.

They are entitled to a refund of any shipping charges you made for originally shipping the order, but not the return expense.

The relevant paragraphs:

The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000

14. - (1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).


Restoration of goods by consumer after cancellation
17. (3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.

(4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

(5) If the consumer -

(a) delivers the goods (whether at his own premises or elsewhere) to any person to whom, under regulation 10(1), a notice of cancellation could have been given; or

(b) sends the goods at his own expense to such a person,
he shall be discharged from any duty to retain possession of the goods or restore them to the supplier.

Actually, re-reading that, its not as clear as I thought

It seems that the consumer does not have to actually send the goods back, but has to hand them over if you send someone to collect them.
If they do send them back however, it is at their own expense.
There is no mention that I can see that you have to reimburse them postage costs if you ask them to return the goods, but they are not obliged to send them back, merely hold them awaiting collection.

[fleetwood]

A further update from OFT "A guide for businesses on
distance selling"

Return of goods following cancellation (Regulation 17)
Who pays for returning the goods if the consumer cancels
an order?
3.55 If you want the consumer to return the goods and to pay for that
return, you must make it clear in the contract and as part of the
required written information – see paragraph 3.10. If the consumer
then fails to return the goods, or sends them at your expense, you
can charge them the direct cost to you of the return, even if you
have already refunded the consumer’s money. You are not allowed
to make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an
administration charge.
3.56 If you did not include these details in the required written information
then you cannot charge anything. See paragraph 3.10. You can never
require consumers to pay the cost of returning substitute goods –
see paragraph 3.1 for more information.
3.57 If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will
have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.

As usual - regs as clear as mud, and seemingly contadictory advice from the same source (OFT), but seems like you can enforce returns at customers expense if its in your T&C.

Discuss

[TraceyHand]

That's the exact passage I read last night, Martin, when I was just checking that I hadn't got it wrong!
I nearly quoted it...and now I don't need to

[fleetwood]

I thought I had it right the first time Tracey, as had looked this up before, but after posting and reading it back to myself, it looked like I got it wrong

Another trawl of the OFT website (see above) seems to have vindicated me after all

..but what a minefield!

[bentleybloke]

The most important thing to remember is that you have to tell the customer their distance selling rights in your t&c otherwise you're screwed. We even summarise the relevent sections on the back of the invoice.

[Rich Brady]

The problem is that any genuine and decent customer will have no issue with covering the return postage.

It is only when you get the real awkward b***ards that you have to remained them of your Ts&Cs or Distance Selling Regulations and 9 times out of 10 they don't think these things apply to them anyway!!!