How would you evolve Actinic?

[Chunkford]

I reckon Actinic should place all shop and customer data online, so the offline program solely controls the design and plugs itself into the online data for viewing, changing and making backups when connected to the internet.

Their sort of half way there with express and catalog/business just need to combine them
Best of both worlds then

[Orchid]

I like the fact that the order processing is a real program in the clients office making clients feel comfortable and secure, plus when mole-end pluggins are utilised I think its the most streamlined orderprocessing of any of the carts out there.

Therefore I totally agree that an Actinic Express front end using PHP and MySQL for the cart with the product data held online - but unlike express able to be hosted on the clients own server - with the Order processing back end offline in a real program.

The front-end has always had it's sorce available to developers - i.e. a developer can edit or even rewrite the perl scripts. But I'd like a future PHP version to be properly open source - meaning that the front end could be improved by the developer community as well as Actinic developers, adding new features and bells and whistles that didn't impact on Actinics planned development roadmap - if it utilises all the administrative command & quality control structures of open source communites it would could be very organised and easy to police. I would also like the back end and the front end to provide proper APIs so that plugin development was made easier and controlled within an approved Actinic Framework.

Open source doesn't have to mean free - and the license could state that the code though available and free to be modified is still owned by Actinic.

[Mike Hughes]

See I think the opposite (to sir chunk):

1. Keeping customer data on the PC is far more secure. I've had servers hacked before but nothing like on any PC. Yes, physical theft of the computer is an issue but proper access management and security awareness minimise the risk and decent backups minimise the impact.

2. having the data on the PC means it can be accessed from Excel and other applications. Far more useful than having it on the server. You can also work on it when limited or no network access is available.

3. You have far more control over backups when the data's on the PC. Yes, many people fail to do this, but I wouldn't throw out the baby because of a bad apple. (I do love to mix my metaphors).

There are counter arguments for people who travel a lot and might have network access and security (possible theft, etc) issues, but I'm not sure keeping everything online is really the answer.

I'm very much in favour of the way actinic works today. Adding a backend database online for stock control and voucher / offer management is more than enough to keep me happy for a while. I think you really only need the online stuff for:

a) Real Time adjustments to stock, vouchers codes etc.

b) Complex management of offers such as 'buy one, get one free, if you're a registered senior citizen on a tuesday morning'.

Mike

Edit: And I wouldn't want actinic to move away from static html pages. Yes, add interactive functionality with javascript and a backend database, but please keep the static html pages. They work great with the search engines.

[gabrielcrowe]

Keeping customer data on the PC is far more secure.

Encrypt the tables online. Have the key stored locally. Have a hashed version of the key stored in an unaccessible place.

can be accessed from Excel and other applications

The desktop app can cache the data, encrypted, locally.

You have far more control over backups

Since the data is also locally stored, a backup wouldn't change. Backups online can be simply automated with cron, and stored encrypted, offsite.

And I wouldn't want actinic to move away from static html pages.

mod-rewrite provides this, most online stores now provide static html output.

[leehack]

I'd agree with Mike, going too much the other way and all you will end up with is a package just like the others. One of Actinic's strengths is the way in which it works, true this presents some weaknesses, but those weaknesses can be addressed, leaving the main advantages still in place.

I don't think when you have a successful business model that you try to change it too much, enhancements, improvements and adddressing shortfalls is all that is needed IMO.

[Orchid]

Why not have two databases one locally and one onsite and synch these on "publish to web" and "download orders" - information needed for the frontend is up on the server anyways so there are no additional security concerns but at the moment it's stored in flat files and these aren't very helpful when developing a modern ecommerce solution. (wish lists, past orders, customer account management etc.), and as Gabe has pointed out the online database can be made to be super secure.

[Mike Hughes]

If we have two copies of the database, I'd rather the PC one was the master as it's the one that's least likely to become corrupted / messed about with.

If we fully lock down the data on the server then I don't see how it can be accessed by other apps without potentially revealing the decryption keys. As soon as you allow 3rd party apps access, aren't you opening the keys up for hackers to access the database.

It still seems to me like you should seperate the two out. Keep the important stuff offline where it's more secure. Only put online the stuff that needs to be there.

This seems the most sensible approach to me. For comparison, I don't think I'd feel at all happy if my bank was thinking of moving all my account data onto their web servers.

Mike

[Orchid]

completely agree Mike, except the bit about pluggin developers leaving holes that can be utilised by hackers - if Actinic has a proper API (Application Programming Interface) then access can be controlled and security can be maintained.

[fergusw]

Interesting discussion. It reminded me of a post on Nadeem's blog (ex Actinic) detailing the possible options for V10 development.

I reckon Actinic should place all shop and customer data online

There are reasons for and against this, however the idea of holding more data in a text based data store (e.g. CAT files) rather than an online database opens up more options for Actinic to move forward.

I would also like the back end and the front end to provide proper APIs

Wouldn't we all, however the work required to rebuild the entire Actinic framework to enable this to happen would be large. IMO Actinic's focus will be to get a greater return on development time by implementing the most requested and required features into the next version instead of rebuilding the backend structure and developing an API framework. It's a shame because some of the community developer members would generate an out-pouring of add-ons and bolt-ons for Actinic before you could say "Google checkout".

[Chunkford]

exactly, a proper API would solve this.
I'm not suggesting at all, that actinic changes the way it creates the pages (i really like it and used to it now), i just would like to see a move towards better future proofing them selves.
If actinic state that they create the software to make sites, then give us the tools to develop the sites.

[george]

It'd be nice to know Actinics vision on this issue.



Just saying like.

[Chunkford]

It's a shame because some of the community developer members would generate an out-pouring of add-ons and bolt-ons for Actinic before you could say "Google checkout".

I see a shiny new website called Actinic App's store lol

[jont]

Having a desktop interface is one of the key features of Actinic - moving it to the cloud would be a serious gamble IMHO.

[fergusw]

moving it to the cloud would be a serious gamble IMHO.

I don't think monkey would like that!

On a serious note a database at a base level is simply a data store, as is a text file (or CAT file), albeit with performance, security and functionality differences.
Logically, for Actinic to "replicate" the common features shown by other "online" solutions, stock, accounts etc, it would require more live data online in CAT/fil/txt files with suitable scripts online to amend the data and suitable download/synchronisation scripts back into the local Actinic interface. The main challenge is the data concurrency.

[NRasool]

Ahh bless thanks for noticing that Fergus, I wondered if anyone was reading it, I am currently doing another Actinic blog, but think I might as well comment on here

I did make the suggestion of doing an Actinic API as it would open Actinic up to plugin creator and bring in new life into the s/ware. If client A wants a feature, and the towers are too busy, then another developer could create that plugin. I will explain a bit more in my blog which hopefully will finish next week.

As for Actinic, I also advise to create a hybrid system, an application with also has a php backend. The idea being, you can download orders on the local pc, but if you don't have your laptop, then you can log in via the shop backend and edit the content tree that way. Of course you will need to sync both the access database and mysql database, but this could be another process/executable created in the application that Actinic calls when it does it uploads or downloads.

I haven't seen a s/ware is both an windows application but also could be controlled from the web fully. It would be a killer app