Design Code Editing

[jont]

In "Design" mode double clicking say variable "ProductReference" opens the "edit appearance" box to allow various changes eg: emboldening. Great.

Alas the code preview is not updated with the <strong>ProductReference</strong> this is only seen by either double clicking the variable or in the live preview .... would it not make sense to have the new formatting tags shown in the code spanning the variable?

Adding italics to a variable results in <em> tags spanning the variable eg:

<b><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><em>Teapot</em></span></b>

which is good.

However - note in the above changing the font from the default to say green changed the inline code with the resulting RGB code - changing back to the default does not wipe the "color" declaration (as shown above) but instead adds the default colour (in this case black).

This needs attention to avoid uneccessary code bloat

[cdicken]

Hi Jont

You are right that the bold/italics/colour tags do not get added in as HTML tags in the layouts. Instead, the attributes are encoded within the variables themselves. If you want to view the attributes in the layout code, you can toggle between the basic and advanced views by clicking the icon at the left hand side of the toolbar above the layout code.

With regards to not being able to remove the colour from the tag easily, I agree this is an issue that should be looked at, so please put it on an email to v8beta@actinic.co.uk.

[jont]

Thanks Chris - have used that but as a designer it is even more confusing and not intuitive IMHO.

For example the basic product name is marked up as :

<b>ProductName</b>

with the bold tags spanning the variable and not as part of the appearance (note you can embolded the variable again from inside the appearance box).. surely the <b> tags should be part of the appearance and not as individual tags? One or the other.

this gives a full view of

<b><actinic:variable formatting="font(Color|000000),italic" encoding="actinic" name="ProductName" selectable="false" /></b>

... the colour is due to the orphaned change from one colour back to the automatic.

As a designer this would translate in the real world (and similarly in v7) to simply

<b><em>Calculator</em></b>

which is indeed the end result in a previewed browser.

Also of note if copying and pasting between Actinic and Dreamweaver as suggested in a thread started by Jo that if you copy

<b>ProductName</b>

it pastes - as it does here to the full view

<b><actinic:variable formatting="font(Color|000000),italic" encoding="actinic" name="ProductName" selectable="false" /></b>

[cdicken]

I think maybe as a designer you are better of using proper HTML tags and editing the CSS classes.

The idea of the toolbar 'point-and-click' design tools is that they are really designed for DIYers who are not going to get too into the code.

Maybe we need to make this difference clearer and perhaps even disable toolbar formatting initally for Actinic Designer users.

[pinbrook]

Css integration is the wayto go for designers. IMO

my plan at the mo is to create my own outer layer (ie not use any actinic theme)

then just plonk "inner layer" in place off we go.

Is this sensible?

just need to work out how to get actinic elements into the outer layer and then "register" the design and see/approve(?) of the resultant code.

Are there any improvements to the choice of navigation we can use?

I noticed yesterday on using a css design I wanted to play withthe shoping backet display , i got the properties up where I could choose 1 of 4 different backet layouts, but the full description of these was truncated within the drop down box,making it necessary to choose each one to see it within the page to see the description. I'll post am image of this later on (I've got no theme at present)

[jont]

my plan at the mo is to create my own outer layer (ie not use any actinic theme)

then just plonk "inner layer" in place off we go.

That is the route I will be taking - create a page - link to myown.css - css style all the variables (in divs or spans) and not use any of the inline formatting whatsoever.

[cbarling]

> my plan at the mo is to create my own outer layer
> (ie not use any actinic theme)

> then just plonk "inner layer" in place off we go.

> Is this sensible?

Yes. The concept of the DW interface is that you keep and maintain your designs in DW and then register them in Actinic as you want. This way, DW is your primary design tool.

When people talk about their "design", they are usually talking about the overall design, which is what this supports.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Chris

[jont]

When importing an overall layout into DW the expanded code is used eg:

<actinic:block if="%3cactinic%3avariable%20name%3d%22AreRegCustomersAllowed%22%20%2f%3e">

is there any way of converting / opening in simple mode eg

blockif AreRegCustomersAllowed /block

[RuralWeb]

just need to work out how to get actinic elements into the outer layer

Is there a way to improve on the DW Extension so that the Insert Actinic Content option could provide a larger list of Actinic bits that could be dropped into the design and then registered. This is what I was hoping V8 would be like we could then just use Actinic to add products etc.

This would mean that the Design tab is not used in Actinic but if it was meant for DIY use then that is no great loss.

[cbarling]

There are various other aspects of the Design tab that you may not have come across yet yet.

For instance, you control all HTML created by a "List". (list of sections, list of products, list of attributes etc). This means it's much more straightforward to have things laid out in multiple columns, highlight every second row and so on as the code is under your control. For the same reason you can get rid of tables entirely if you want to. This can't be done externally and it would be a huge amount of work to replicate all of this in the DW plug-in.

There's two points to bear in mind:

- v8 design is a revolution rather than evolution. We now have a flexible, extensible and consistent underlying architecture supporting design. It will take a while to discover all of the things that can be done with this (we're still discovering ourselves)

- Because it's the first release of these new capabilities, there are places where they are pretty rough around the edges. We are very committed to finding these points, and then prioritising and fixing them (particularly the high priority and easy things) as fast as we can. However, that's likely to happen over both maintenance releases and major releases

Our own internal experience is that design is much quicker and easier than in previous versions. However, it does take a while to achieve this because the thinking needs to be really different.

However, please keep the comments and criticims coming. It's really helpful.

Chris

[pinbrook]

I'm really happy with the design, its hard work working it out, but once I've established a good outer layer css file it will be plain sailing.

Its one of those iceberg scenerios 99% of the work will be unseen.

Its also good to see that notice is being taken of the desire for good Actinic/DW/CSS integration and getting the interfaces working well, and taking on board that designers will require one solution and shop in a box builders require another.

We'll continue with the comments secure that you will make the necessary adjustments.

[jont]

it does take a while to achieve this because the thinking needs to be really different.

For me it is akin to learning a new language - at first trying to translate the foreign language into English to forumlate the answer and then translating it back to provide the answer ... we are all so used to the previous versions and how they held together it is going to be a while to think in v8 discreetly and not convert the methodology to v7 and back to v8.

[pinbrook]

the key with learning languages is not to translate back and forth into english, but to think in the said language

[jont]

Have to say with each passing day of experimenting with v8 keep on finding some fantastic features ... ListIndex variable is my current favourite ... 101 uses

The sooner the AUG arrives the better ... need a good bed-time read

[cdicken]

The sooner the AUG arrives the better ... need a good bed-time read

Started working on it today.

There's so much you can do with v8, I literally don't know where to start. There's loads of uses I just haven't thought of yet.

Translation: The first cut of the AUG will probably be a bit thin - but it will get thicker as people discover little tips and tricks with v8.