V8 and Credit/Debit Cards Surcharge

[nik-ret]

I'm sure i've seen a number of threads in the past regarding users wanting to be able to charge surcharge on credit cards but not debit cards. This would be a massive help to us and despite putting it on the wish list, doesn't seem to have been addressed in v8 yet.

Do other users need to be able to do this and do we think it's something that could still be pushed for in v8?

Regards

Nik

[cdicken]

Unfortunately there will be no additional features now in v8. However, I will happily add your name to the wish list for v9.

[nik-ret]

Chris

From the previous threads it looks as if people have been asking for this since 2004. Is it actually 'on the radar' now or is there a reason it's not getting done? I need to know if I should look for another solution or keep on waiting....

Many thanks

Nik

[zmagyar]

There was an extensive discussion on this when it came to the wish list first time 2 years ago. We have considered to include it in a v7 maintenance release but unfortunately there were too many issues with it. Just to list a few...

1) When a PSP is used then Actinic doesn't know anything about the card therefore it is impossible to implement this feature to work for this case.

2) There is not any safe way to determine if a card is credit or debit. I got a list of the card numbers for investigation when we did talk about this feature. The list includes card number ranges, card types and issuers for cards issued before 2001. It is a 2MB file and can be used to decide if a card is debit or credit card for about 80% of the cases.

3) There are cards which can function on both ways.

The above list explains why couldn't we come out with a general solution. Until there is a clever way to solve the above listed problems it is unlikely included in a release.

[Darren B]

I agree with your comments on card numbers and deciding what is what, however getting the user to select the type of card before they enter there details with the PSP would address the issue.

buy a ticket with ryan air - select your card type visa credit /debit or switch or mastercard and the price changes and this all happens before you even enter your card details and process payment as they have to get you to agree to the charges shown.

Can something similar not be done in actinic?

just my thoughts
Cheers
Darren
ps it also tells you if the card number and type do not match so you cant fiddle it so i guess they use the file you mentioned

[cdicken]

Thanks Darren

I've dropped an email to Zoltan with your idea here. It's a good suggestion, although in v8 it would add yet another page to the checkout.

[zmagyar]

however getting the user to select the type of card before they enter there details with the PSP would address the issue.

You are right. We have also considered something similar. I.e. allow the same payment method to be specified twice with different titles. But this solultion wouldn't allow us to do any validation. Therefore it would be technically possible for someone to click on "Debit Card" and then pay by credit card. Of course the merchant can consider this as fraudulent order and act accordingly. But it can be done even by mistake relatively frequently (e.g. I always confused by my credit and debit cards ). But I'm not sure it is a workable compromise.

ps it also tells you if the card number and type do not match so you cant fiddle it so i guess they use the file you mentioned

Possibly. Or there are other approaches what we are not aware of.

[Darren B]

I agree there is always the customer that will realise they can pay less and change the card type or do it by mistake, personaly i believe it is deliberate 99% of the time.

The card types are classified by the first 4 numbers if you look at natwest switch you will probably find it starts with 6759 genuine barclay card visa 4929. I can see you are all looking at your cards. so the actual card number is irrelivant just a cross check on/ look up on the first 4 digits maybe go one step futher let actinic specify the card from these numbers and pass the data to the psp.

I know i made that sound really easy but just trying to add some meat to the soup

Cheers
Darren

[zmagyar]

The card types are classified by the first 4 numbers

I'm not sure about this. According to the list I have it is the first 6 numbers. Take a look on the lines below.

454312	HSBC	UNITED KINGDOM	C
454313	NATIONWIDE BUILDING SOCIETY	UNITED KINGDOM	D

Also there are whole series where the card type (C/D at the end of the line) is not indicated at all. E.g.

402145	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402146	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402147	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402148	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402149	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402150	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402151	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM
402152	BARCLAYS BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM

How would you deal whith these? Also there are several items where the card type is indicated as 'P'. E.g.

400841	ABBEY NATIONAL BANK PLC	UNITED KINGDOM	P

I'm not sure what this card type is. Probably it can fall back to credit or debit cards otherwise just increases the number where decision can not be made.

Checking the list again it feels like we are able to determine the card type in about 70% of the cases (assuming that we can get an up to date list). But unfortunately this is even worst for the UK where the card type is indicated in probably less than 50% of the cases (I have no idea what could be the reason of this national difference).

I can see you are all looking at your cards

I did it already when I got the list. :-) They are matching. :-)

so the actual card number is irrelivant just a cross check on/ look up on the first 4 digits maybe go one step futher let actinic specify the card from these numbers and pass the data to the psp.

I might be ok if Actinic payment method is used. But in case of PSPs the first 6 digits should be captured for validation when the payment method is selected. Then at the PSP the whole card number should be entered. It doesn't sound very user friendly to me.

Anyway I agree with you, some partial solution can be done here. But I'm not sure it is worth the effort to develop something which works only for a very limited configuration in limited cases. I believe it is less annoying to not have a feature than having something which is not working properly.

[Darren B]

I agree something that only works half the time can be frustrating,

I will talk to my software company as the server we use inhouse has credit /debit card identity so will ask them how they do it and where do they get the information from. It also tells you the credit card number is wrong when you get a digit wrong or in the incorrect place?

Cheers
Darren

[David N]

Wikipedia have good listing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Identification_Number

[FlashGordon]

More On Credit/Debit Card Surcharges

OK if you have a site that takes payments via an online PSP you need to be able to determine if a card is a Credit Card or Debit Card BEFORE you take the payment. However, if you have a site that downloads card details with orders and/or receives them via phone/fax/snail-mail you can deal with inconsistancies when you manually process each card. The following procedure description gives an idea of the options I would like to see in v8 asap:

1. In Terms And Condition include text something like:
"If you say you are paying with a Credit Card
but actually pay with a Debit Card
then we will subtract the Credit Card charge from your Invoice.
"If you say you are paying with a Debit Card
but actually pay with a Credit Card
then we will add the Credit Card charge to your Invoice.

2. On the checkout page, that currently has the shipping class choice (which changes the shipping charges), include an additional choice between "Pay By Credit Card" or "Pay By Debit Card" (with this text changable). Choosing "Pay By Credit Card" would add the predefined surcharge and choosing "Pay By Debit Card" would remove the surcharge (if applied). I WOULD NOT WANT ANOTHER PAGE ADDING TO THE CHECKOUT!

3. The customers choice above needs to be downloaded with the order and included on the Invoice, Packing Sheet and Data Entry (Packing) Sheet.

4. On manually processing the card:
i. If Credit Card used but customer said it was a Debit Card
then add surcharge to order
ii. If Debit Card used but customer said it was Credit Card
then subtract surcharge from order.

For the above procedure to be supported the following features are required in Actinic:

1. Set surchages for Credit Cards and Debit Cards separatly.

2. Be able to specify the required additions to the checkout page.

3. Be able to add and subtract the Credit Card surcharge from an order and hence all the printable documents.

I think the above facilites would be of great benifit to many Actinc users. They would need to be option because not every Actinic user would want to adopt the above procedure.

Regards Gordon

[brian.mc]

When we process a payment through our PDQ Terminal, as soon as the card number is typed in the screen displays the card type eg Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, Delta, Visa Electron, Amex etc. This is before it has dialled up the server for authorisation, therefore this information must be programmed into the software on the machine. If that is the case, then this data should be available from the banks or PSP's, and it should be a simple matter of incorporating this into Actinic to give the same result.

[zmagyar]

The following procedure description gives an idea of the options I would like to see in v8 asap:

In this case you should validate all the cards manually. So you can do this even in v7. You can change the T&C text to include that bit. Then on the downloaded order you can make the adjustment offline.

When we process a payment through our PDQ Terminal, as soon as the card number is typed in the screen displays the card type eg Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, Delta, Visa Electron, Amex etc.

This is only the card type but there is no information about credit/debit card status.