Primary etc

[dscontroller]

If there really is a lot of people wanting to create and distrubute themes, then we can look at putting in some features to support this.

This would be an excellent idea, Chris.

I have tried various custom themes, which in the first instance seem to go very well with the aid of Dreamweaver and CSS. But before finalisation, something appears to go wrong. It may well be me misinterpreting some of the information in the AUG. It's still fairly early days yet to be despondent. I can see that there are more benefits than pitfalls in the new Actinic!

Regards,

David

[cdicken]

I'm interested ONLY in producing a specific design for my single client - not to be resold to anyone else - as you seem to be implying that you assumed I would want to do.

This is what I have been expecting everyone to do. What we have here is a terminology problem. You talk about 'themes' - and Jo really is trying to create a theme to sell online to customers - but you are actually looking to create a specific design for a client.

OK - there is a feature to do this - it is called 'Design | Deploy Partial Site Design'. This allows you to export only the layouts that you have designed for your clients from the Library, and also send them any custom images that are used by those layouts. More importantly, it allows you to send the customer the customised 'layout selectors'. Layout selectors are the fields within Actinic such as 'Product Layout' where you can set which layout is used by the store. By sending your clients a set of updated layout selectors with the 'Deploy Partial Site Design', you can set what layouts are used by the store by default.

To do this, you need to create a customised layout, and then edit the layout selector that is responsible for inserting that layout. Generally, you can find the layout selector by locating your customised layout in the library (e.g. customised product layouts are in the 'Products' group) and then double-click on the layout selector that is in that group (e.g. 'ProductLayout). Layout selectors have a round icon. Then you can select your customised layout within the 'Top Level Value' and 'Initial Value' fields so the store will that layout by default. Then when you send the customer your customised layout selector, it will automatically set your customised layouts as being the default ones in the store.

Hope that makes sense. It's a bit 'stream of consciousness' but I think it answers your question.

[jubbbird]

When I started my site (all i've done so far is created a few new layouts, etc) I had a basic example site, with a default theme+colour scheme selected. Clicking the "advanced" button reveals that that theme has a default button set.

If I want to start a new clean site, I have certain things I need to get rid of first. When I "Deploy a Partial Site Design", and the client imports the resulting .acd file, what is created client-side? I would imagine that the codebase (layouts I have included in the "deployment") would be added to the clients database, the images referenced in the design would be bundled in a new folder with the theme name I chose under the "themes" folder, and if I used a button set[s] those dirs would be created too. I assume this because anyone who creates a theme to be used by client[s] COULD intend their clients to be able to choose from a range of compatibile button styles and even image sets.

The only reason I want to understand the button sets etc. is because they seem not only to be a part of the default themes, but a tool for anyone who creates another theme. In the case of my particular client, I don't need to provide swappable button sets so I dont care, but it seems that in creating a theme I MAY HAVE to specify a button set... perhaps not?

To make things clearer, what EXACTLY happens when a partial site design is deployed AND when its imported by a client? I would also like to know how an image needs to be referenced in order to be recognised by Actinic for uploading. In v7, you could include an image in HTML alone and it would find it and take it along, but those invoked purely by CSS would be left behind and would require being atted to the "Additional Files List".

I think one of the problems I have (being a little bit of a perfectionist) is that although I can accept that if I put in all my pics and stuff and deploy the site design, ill end up with .acd file that my client can import, it'll probably all work just fine and his site will be transformed, wahoo. But in the end, will there be a nice tidy "themes" folder with the correct theme name? Will there be a "button set" folder (possibly empty) with the correct theme name? Will the site1 folder only include the files that are actually relevant, instead of the residue of the "Basic Grey Buttons" button set? Will the new layouts be added to his database, the "themes.ini" file updated and default outer page layouts be correctly specified for my new theme? Will it all be added to the themes list such that my client can choose another theme one day, but then go back to mine and automaticlly have the correct button set/page layouts selected just as it does when I change between "Clean CSS Layout" and "Mechanical"?

All in all, I just want to add another theme to my clients list. I want to have the opportunity to give him button sets if I like, but also to specifiy an empty button set (or no button set?) such that the 61 extra images are left out (although I have noticed that if you select the empty "Clean Layout" button set, no image files are swapped and no images files are deleted - so you end up with the old 61 images from the previously selected button set:/ ).

If I was to do it manually I would:

1) Create a new theme folder with my chosen name, whack in my images (perhaps "Save Site Images as Custom Images" is the same?).
2) Add a few new lines to the "themes.ini" file specifying the primary payout names and a conveniantly named button set (can't see a function for this).
3) Create a button set folder, likely empty but with my theme name(perhaps the "Save Sit Buttons as Custom Buttons" is the same?).
4) Create the new layouts which would be subsequenty added to the database (Theres only one way to do this, happy with that).

Then, upon restart, Actinic would - I assume - read the themes.ini file and find my new theme/button set[s], thus adding them to the list. When my theme is selected if would know which layouts to default to, as well as the default button set - which in my case would be empty and aught to result in the button images being removed - which leads back to my previous question: how DO button sets actually function? Just a pre-defined list of named image files that are swapped when a new set is selected? No direct tie to code (given that images names are hard coded in the HTML/CSS and no variables are used...)?

Finally, to *manually* get the theme on to my clients PC, I would have to pretty much repeat the process all over again, including copying and pasting layout code if I didnt decide to simply copy my database thus potentially over writing other peoples work if my client bought two themes from two suppliers for example. However, assumably, I can instead use the "Deploy Partial Site Design" (curious choice of button name) and end up with a .acd file which theoretically has my content (given that I selected all my new stuff in the wizard - would be a nice touch if this was auto, but not sure how complicated that would be to pull off...) and can be imported by my client with as yet undefined results.

Ideally the entire process of exporting and importing a theme should be automated as it was in v7, and modular as it was in v7 such that several designs can be submitted by different people with no fear of overwriting anything. For example, if I simply send my "themes.ini" file to my client, clearly that would overwrite changes made by others. But if a "theme importer" automatically adds only the required lines to themes.ini, that would allow for multiple submissions.

Everything I've written above summarises my current state of mind regarding v8 theme development. I have my intended result in mind, so I understand that if I'm actually barking up the wrong tree, you guys will be trying to convince me that half of what I've said really doesn't matter Truth is, i'd like this process to be nice and clean most likely because it seemed to be in v7. I'd like an explanation of the intended Actinic theme development road-map so as I can see if I'm off on a tangent, given that there are only about 2 people on this forum asking questions even slightly related to this topic :/

Finally, to end my babbling, I would like to make sure that anyone who reads this understands that this is all light hearted - i dont intend to come across as "moaning", just documenting my thoughts with the hope that I might make my life easier I'm just becoming increasingly aware that I'm repeating myself a bit and don't wish to annoy.

[cdicken]

Right

<fx: flexes fingers, shakes out arms, prepares to write a lengthy response>

One bit of information you might not have - when a customer now purchases an Actinic solution from a designer (like yourself) they will generally purchase a 'Client' version of Catalog or Business. This is a fully functioning version of Actinic except that it has no 'Design' tab or 'Design' menu. Therefore, they have no access to the theme functionality. They will just be able to use the design that you have given them, and select from the range of layouts that you have set up in 'Settings | Site Options | Layouts' and in the 'Layouts' tabs of the products/sections.

This is why design deployment is no longer done as a custom theme - because someone using a 'Client' version will never be able to choose that theme. This is why you now deploy a design as a 'Partial Site Design' - it is not a full design - it just has the bits that you have designed specifically for that client.

This is why the discussion about theme folders and button sets is largely irrelevant. Any images you supply will just be copied straight into the 'Site1' folder of the client installation.

With that in mind, I'll address some of your remaining specific points:

To make things clearer, what EXACTLY happens when a partial site design is deployed AND when its imported by a client? I would also like to know how an image needs to be referenced in order to be recognised by Actinic for uploading. In v7, you could include an image in HTML alone and it would find it and take it along, but those invoked purely by CSS would be left behind and would require being atted to the "Additional Files List".

What happens is that the layouts you have designed, and the layout selectors you have customised, will be imported into the Client's library. Any layouts that have the same name as one already in the client's library will just overwrite the one in the clients library. Any images included in the site design will be copied into the Site1 folder. By the way, if you put single quotes around any images specified in the CSS file, they will automatically be uploaded.

how DO button sets actually function? Just a pre-defined list of named image files that are swapped when a new set is selected? No direct tie to code (given that images names are hard coded in the HTML/CSS and no variables are used...)?

That's right - they are just a load of files that are copied into the 'Site1' folder when you apply a theme. The default navigation icon layouts just happen to hard-coded to refer to images with those particular names. This means that there will be images in the 'Site1' folder that are copied in my a theme change, but are never referred to in the layouts. There's no way around that.

To test a partial site design, simply license a new site in Designer (or Business Multi Site) and import the file. You will then see what happens to the site, and whether it is working as you want.

[jubbbird]

Ok that makes some good sense - cheers

Three more questions though:

1) When would someone use the "Save Site Images as Custom Images" and "Save Site Buttons as Custom Buttons" buttons?

2) Are you saying that generally, I can manually prune the site1 folder to get rid of any images that I know my theme doesnt use, THEN deply partial and my client won't be bothered with button images that are never used?

3) Having done a bit more work on my shiny new CSS layout, I have run into another issue regarding HTML DTD's - Having established a layout that works in IE and FireFox, I have imported it into a new layout in Actinic and discovered that:

a) Rather to my surprise Actinic no longer rearranges all my code as v7 used to - all good
b) Instead it simply adds a "<SPAN ACT..." around the entire layout.

I would like to know what this does, because it seems to be forcing the HTML DTD to "Strict" thus causing an incompatibility regarding borders and block widths between IE and FF, and now my site only works in one and not the other depending on widths I specify I'm assuming this extra SPAN is only added to Outer Layouts...?

[cdicken]

1) When would someone use the "Save Site Images as Custom Images" and "Save Site Buttons as Custom Buttons" buttons?

If they had changed the appearance of the buttons or the images in their design and they wanted to make sure they never get lost if they change theme. It also makes them available to other sites they might have licensed in their installation.

2) Are you saying that generally, I can manually prune the site1 folder to get rid of any images that I know my theme doesnt use, THEN deply partial and my client won't be bothered with button images that are never used?

Yes. The client will have a few images in their Site1 folder from the default theme that Actinic comes with, but these will just be ignored once they have imported your design.

3) Having done a bit more work on my shiny new CSS layout, I have run into another issue regarding HTML DTD's - Having established a layout that works in IE and FireFox, I have imported it into a new layout in Actinic and discovered that:

a) Rather to my surprise Actinic no longer rearranges all my code as v7 used to - all good
b) Instead it simply adds a "<SPAN ACT..." around the entire layout.

I would like to know what this does, because it seems to be forcing the HTML DTD to "Strict" thus causing an incompatibility regarding borders and block widths between IE and FF, and now my site only works in one and not the other depending on widths I specify I'm assuming this extra SPAN is only added to Outer Layouts...?

The <span> is just added in the interactive preview (in the 'Design' tab) to put the dotted line around the layouts. It should just be benign - i.e. it shouldn't affect your design - and then when you do an offline preview, the <span>s are removed.

Could you confirm this please? I.e. please do an offline preview in Actinic and see whether the design looks as you need it to look.

[jubbbird]

You will be glad to know that - although I would have done it differently (i.e. the v7 way, but aside from that its a tad odd...) I'm now reasonably happy.

However, that SPAN does in fact BREAK my CSS code by apparently forcing a "Strict" HTML DTD - though I can't confirm THAT detail - either way it causes IE to render blocks differently so its my best guess. Either way, you were right, it did in fact work perfectly when I did an offline preview, so no worries anymore, thats made my day! Wasn't sure what I was gonna do about that one...

[jubbbird]

Actually it would seem that although the site DOES work when previewed "offline", it's impossible to see it working in the "online" preview, which could be rather annoying - if not for me, for my client.

Is it possible that we could have the "SPAN" section relocated AFTER the DOCTYPE line? It works in IE, can only assume it will still serve its Actinic purpose in this position...

[cdicken]

grumble grumble internet explorer grumble grumble



I'll happily report this for you. Hopefully it will make Internet Explorer a bit happier.