V8 has NOT been released (for existing users) !!

[Florian]

Hmmm....

Having evaluated the V8 Beta and being happy enough to want to use the release version to start re-building our V7 site I removed the Beta version, downloaded the release version and installed it.

Well hello, on starting V8 I'm being told that it has expired. I duly called Actinic for a release code (We're on ActinicCover) to be told that my V8 installation will remain unusable for another 3-4 weeks. I apparently have to wait until the first maintenance release before being able to use the program at all. How bizarre!

The reason I was given for this is that Actinic do not allow existing users to actually use V8 to avoid them being hit by all the bugs currently present in the release client. However, if I were a new customer who has never used Actinic before I would be welcome to use the program freely.

Now that doesn't make sense to me! Surely, as a user of Actinic since V3 I should be more able to identify and deal with bugs than a newbie who has never seen Actinic before. Why does Actinic not trust it's current userbase to use it's existing skills to help with the testing of the release client but is happy to inflict it on new inexperienced users?

As a gift retailer our busiest season is just around the corner and therefore every hour of development work counts towards increased profitability in the future. We were planning to slowly develop our site in V8 on a local machine whilst still using V7 as our live site. Once happy, we would then make the switch on the web. This plan has now been wrecked by us not being able to use V8 at all for a few more weeks - BRAVO Actinic

I must say that I don't know of any other software house that officially releases a new version with great fanfare but only allows new customers to use it, whilst loyal existing users are banned from benefiting from the new features. Didn't see that mentioned anywhere on the website.

GET A GRIP

Florian

[RuralWeb]

Why not download the trial software and use that to build your site then enter the activation code when Actinic send it out. Its what I have just done for a site I have.

[pinbrook]

Actinic have made it quite clear that V7 sites should not be upgraded until the first maintenance release. This is for your own benefit..... do you really want to release an upgraded site at the beginning of a busy period only to find thesoftware is not as stable as it could be and there are still potential bugsout there to be ironed out.

Personally I won't be recommending to any of my clients that they upgrade until after Xmas. I will release new sites in V8. But in my opinion the lead up to Xmas it not a sensible time to upgrade software

[RuralWeb]

As jo says there are still bugs in the software so in the long term you are better off waiting a while. I am quite happy to work with them at the moment and report to Actinic as I find them.

[Jan]

Have you explained to Actinic (other than in this posting) that this is your plan, I think part of the reluctance is to protect your live sites, there are some people that would download the software, upgrade and upload their live site, with a brand new release it is possible that orders could be effected. I was planning to do something similar to you myself actually.

Regards,

[Florian]

Why not download the trial software and use that to build your site then enter the activation code when Actinic send it out. Its what I have just done for a site I have.

Thanks Malcolm, I tried that but am told when starting the newly installed V8 that my 'evaluation copy' has expired. I think this happened to other people when they deleted Beta 1 and then installed Beta 2. One apparently just rang Actinic and they gave you a new code to continue the evaluation. Why not do the same with the release client?

Thanks for your input too Jo, I also have learnt with Actinic over the years the hard way not to upload brand new code to a live site and I am definitely NOT planning to use V8.00 in my live shop. However, I'm loosing valuable learning and development time by not even being able to 'play' with the new features in the release version and maybe start planning how to build my new V8 site from scratch (seems to the best way according to all you pros here on the forum). This I cannot do now and that is what I object to.

I can't believe there isn't a way around this, maybe removing any trace of V8 from my system, including hunting it down in the registry too. Why didn't Actinic release V8 without the site upload-button enabled, at least we could have used the next few weeks to become more familiar with the new way of changing layouts etc. Even then I wouldn't call it a 'Release' though.

Florian

[Florian]

Have you explained to Actinic (other than in this posting) that this is your plan, I think part of the reluctance is to protect your live sites, there are some people that would download the software, upgrade and upload their live site, with a brand new release it is possible that orders could be effected. I was planning to do something similar to you myself actually.

Regards,

I did Jan, but to no avail. They just wouldn't give me a code to play with the relase version or maybe even extend the Beta. I emphasised that I would NOT use it to run my live store. After having used Actinic since v3 I feel a little peeved to say the least that they don't trust the ability of a loyal customer to make a judgement as to the viability and stability of their code.

Florian

[Widdy]

Hi,

I am in the exact same situation where I want to start work on my sites getting ready for version 8,
I uninstalled the beta version, deleted the Actinic 8 directory and re-installed Actinic 8, now I have 30 days evaluation time. I can now work on my site getting it ready for 8.01. Have you tried this.
With regard to actinic not letting existing users have 8.0 straightaway, I presume it is because there maybe/are bugs in it. There is probably over 1000 (guessed) existing users wanting to upgrade and less than 50 (another guess) users buying for the first time. If there is a disasterous bug in it and everyone's store crashes it is easier for Actinic to help 50 people instead of the 1000's.

Ian

[pinbrook]

its abit weird, I'm not sure why you can't download the first live version and use it for 30 days.

you said Actinic expect the first maintenance release within 3-4 week. Thus 30 days is greater than this projected time scale.

If necessary you could take the work done in the 30 days period, and transfer to a different PC for another 30 days, thus you have the benefit of your learning curve time period

[RuralWeb]

I spoke to Actinic today as I needed to get a site live asp and confirmed that I could use the trial download as the activation codes would be released within 3 weeks. As jo says you could just transfer it to another pc for another 30 day trial.

As for the expired problem if you uninstall Actinic using the Actinic uninstaller and then rename or delete the V8 folder then the software should install ok. I did this today and it worked ok.

There will always be problems with new software and the latest release still has bugs so beware.

[Florian]

Ok, have uninstalled v8, deleted all related directories and registry entries. Downloaded V8 again & installed it - got another 30 days - at last!

A quick mention of this when I spoke to Actinic yesterday could have saved me a lot of time and hassle but hey, at least we got there in the end. I just wonder what happens in another 30 days - if we do some development work between now and then and export a snapshot, re-install another trial and re-import the snapshot - will it start another 30 days so that we can continue where we left off or recognise through the snapshot that it should default to 'expired' again?

Still don't quite understand their hesitancy to let us 'play' but thanks to all your suggestions we're up and running again.

And don't worry, v8 won't be allowed a single byte of space on my webserver until 8.01 comes out, however long that takes!

All the best & thanks again
Florian

PS. Just need to figure out that variables vs. templates thing now .....

[cbarling]

Hi Florian,

I'm sorry that the "official line" seems to have come across so heavy. I think that the thread has pretty much covered the reasons why we don't encourage upgrades of live sites until the first maintenance release comes out, but you already knew those.

Because new users generally take a while to build their sites, any real nasties that come to light can generally be fixed before they go live. If anyone is to blame for this policy I'm afraid that it's me, as I stressed to sales that we shouldn't release the product to existing customers until 8.0.1.

We haven't released the product knowing it can't be used - we went through two rounds of alpha testing and two releases of a beta candidate to get to here. The current situation with the release is that we're not aware of any "showstoppers" that will impact all UK users, although there are a limited number of issues that we are fixing for a quick release of 8.0.1. However, we still are trying to be careful and not putting anyone's live sites at risk.

Yesterday, I know that we were absolutely overwhelmed with calls asking for the upgrade, and we were also short-staffed in sales. Giving you an explanation rather than an excuse, it is the case that people under pressure are less likely to enter into a full discussion, and may simply quote "the rules".

In the meantime I'm glad that you've found a way round. I will ask sales to read this thread so that they can see the nuances of the argument, and the solution.

Chris

[Florian]

Thanks Chris for the explanation, I appreciate your situation and understand that you are just being over cautious.

Whilst the guy I spoke to in Sales wasn't necessarily unfriendly, there was a definite 'brick wall' when I tried to explain that I wasn't planning to immediately update my live site and only wanted to use v8 to further explore the massive changes in design procedures as well as the added functionality.

It's frustrating when we get excited about all the new stuff and spend many hours exploring the Beta only be be stopped dead in our tracks the moment the real product is actually released.

Still, with the workaround suggested further up in this thread we have now managed to get back up and running again - thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

Florian

[pinbrook]

Any idea on when we can use Designer for multiple sites?

Its a drag having to manually save each site, and useful to have the option to haveseveral sites onthe go to steal code from

[cdicken]

Jo - if you contact Actinic Sales and explain you just want a key to do testing I'm sure that won't be a problem. It is just we are not shipping upgrade software until 8.0.1 is released.