Upgrade From Developer 7

[jont]

v8 was muted on the forum for a summer release way back in about February - several months time to take out cover / subscription (which would have been offered at the time of purchase or just afterwards)

I agree - it is harsh if you have only just purchased v7 - sales wil generally allow you an upgrade if it is quite recent ... 10 months on is probably a different issue

[theirishactinic]

retired

Hey jont,

Thanks for the info - whatever the reasons for this it still means that i bought a piece of software last year, that - quoting the sales department "is now being retired". Now i am being asked to fork out a third of the price again for the product i bought last year if i want to avail of the latest changes. As it is being retired do i not have any rights because i can never get updates for it? I really do think this is a bit out of order..........(forgive the pun).

Andy

[theirishactinic]

cover

So i am expected to visit the forum to find out? I am very busy trying to earn a living......

yes it is harsh....i bought something that is no longer in existence....... and as for taking oout cover when i bought it, it was actually over 12 months ago, so that wouldnt have been much good - i would have to have taken out two covers - twice the price...... and at the time of purchase i spent all my money buying the software - that meant i couldnt afford cover........ i am not a company i am a sole trader........

Andy

[theirishactinic]

Hey ruralweb,

I am not going to get off the subject and explain my business to you - my customers are perfectly happy with their sites - and dont need to have additional charges sprung on them - as neither do I.........

Andy

[jont]

v7 has been out for such a long time it has been patched to death and the latest versions can be found on the main website. There is only so much legacy support can be done for any product (Microsoft wont publish updates for Windows 98 etc).

You have not really bought something that is no longer in existence - the software is not time specific and is still usable - many are stil using v6 and a large number even older versions.

The forum is here to offer support and assistance and is a great source of information - not only about future upgrades but also how to improve your site, e-commerce discussions and get the best out of Actinic.

I bought a Citroen Picasso last year - full price - now 18 months later a new version has been released - I am unable to get an upgrade to the new model - I bought the car based on the info I had at the time and the product suited my needs. This happens with any product line as new products will be released to improve on the exisiting. I have had 12+ months of operation from the car and it will go on indefinately (assuming it is maintained) - I cant expect Citroen to replace it for me just because they released a newer version ... and I can;t afford £10.000 again.

Yep - its a pain - especially if a sole trader - but I do think Actinic are right to say no. Speak to them again and see what they say - worth the cost of another call.

[theirishactinic]

actinic partners and affiliates club

v7 has been out for such a long time it has been patched to death and the latest versions can be found on the main website. There is only so much legacy support can be done for any product (Microsoft wont publish updates for Windows 98 etc).

You have not really bought something that is no longer in existence - the software is not time specific and is still usable - many are stil using v6 and a large number even older versions.

The forum is here to offer support and assistance and is a great source of information - not only about future upgrades but also how to improve your site, e-commerce discussions and get the best out of Actinic.

I bought a Citroen Picasso last year - full price - now 18 months later a new version has been released - I am unable to get an upgrade to the new model - I bought the car based on the info I had at the time and the product suited my needs. This happens with any product line as new products will be released to improve on the exisiting. I have had 12+ months of operation from the car and it will go on indefinately (assuming it is maintained) - I cant expect Citroen to replace it for me just because they released a newer version ... and I can't afford £10.000 again.

Yep - its a pain - especially if a sole trader - but I do think Actinic are right to say no. Speak to them again and see what they say - worth the cost of another call.

Lets focus on the software remarks - not the references to cars - because its not relevant. If i bought a copy of windows in 1998 and went looking for updates in 2006 - eight years later - i think that i would accept that times have moved on.

I also bought a new computer with windows on it last year - and when the new version of windows comes out windows xp is not going to be "retired" - i will still be able to get patches and upgrades. I perfectly accept that software develops, and that new versions come out - but i dont expect to pay the price that developer was one year and the following year to be told i have two choices

1. Pay £425 to have it upgraded
2. Be stuck with a "retired" product.

This is not good enough. Notification should have been mailed to everyone who bought the product. You should not have to go looking for information like that, it should be offered as good customer service. And for those without cover who spent a lot of money there should be a cheaper incentive to continue using up to date versions of the product.

But again i presume i am wrong. Pay £1,300 last year - then add £425 on this year - without persoanl warning. Of course i am wrong - how could i not be?

Andy

[Duncan Rounding]

Prior to v8 being released the offer was to purchase cover less 20%, which is what I decided to do. What you have been quoted is the standard price because v8 is now released. Had you chosen to purchase a subscription at time of your purchase you could've saved yourself the most money - obviously at the time you chose not to (as did I).
I have no gripe about the upgrade pricing. To be truthful I was hoping that v8 was going to be more 'ironed out' than it is now and in fact had I known this woulds be the case 3 months ago I would have waited and accepted the 20% extra.
I feel I purchased too early. I am not confident enough at present to develope for clients using v8 until more bugs are sorted out.

Why not continue to use v7 until v8 matures?

[RuralWeb]

I am not going to get off the subject and explain my business to you

Hey Irish - Dont vent your frustrations on me its not my fault - if you dont like the advice then dont post. This is not Actinic support or sales you are speaking to.

[theirishactinic]

Hey Irish - Dont vent your frustrations on me its not my fault - if you dont like the advice then dont post. This is not Actinic support or sales you are speaking to.

Hey Rural,

I am not venting my frustrations on you. You told me i SHOULD be charging my clients to make up for the price of upgrading....... sorry, i don't that i dont take that as GOOD advice or a solution. If you think that this is venting frustration i a sorry to hear that.......

Andy

[wjcampbe]

when the new version of windows comes out windows xp is not going to be "retired"

Hmmm, - guess you haven't read that support for XP was discontinued some four months ago. Currently only SP1 and above are supported - and very soon, that will be SP2 and above.

In fact - from the MS site about IE7 launch "Internet Explorer 7 will be available for users of genuine Windows XP SP2, Windows XP 64-bit Edition, and Windows Server 2003 SP1". - no mention of SP1 there.

[theirishactinic]

Prior to v8 being released the offer was to purchase cover less 20%, which is what I decided to do. What you have been quoted is the standard price because v8 is now released. Had you chosen to purchase a subscription at time of your purchase you could've saved yourself the most money - obviously at the time you chose not to (as did I).
I have no gripe about the upgrade pricing. To be truthful I was hoping that v8 was going to be more 'ironed out' than it is now and in fact had I known this woulds be the case 3 months ago I would have waited and accepted the 20% extra.
I feel I purchased too early. I am not confident enough at present to develope for clients using v8 until more bugs are sorted out.

Why not continue to use v7 until v8 matures?

Hey Drounding,

Yes - always a good idea to wait until bugs have been ironed out - i agree with you on that. Thats why when the new version of windows comes out soon i will be waiting at least a year before i get it - but at least i will be able to keep receiving patches and updates for the original version i bought last year.....

Well its a pity noone in actinic told me that there were offers going around - i have not had the time to visit this site for a while - i would have expected an email though.

I am glad you are happy with the upgrade price. It wasn't a case of actually choosing to purchase subscription at the time - i genuinely didnt have the choice - i didn't have the money..........

It looks like i am going to have to continue using version 7 - but not until 8 matures - because i don't have the £425 to pay for it.....

Andy

[theirishactinic]

Hmmm, - guess you haven't read that support for XP was discontinued some four months ago. Currently only SP1 and above are supported - and very soon, that will be SP2 and above.

In fact - from the MS site about IE7 launch "Internet Explorer 7 will be available for users of genuine Windows XP SP2, Windows XP 64-bit Edition, and Windows Server 2003 SP1". - no mention of SP1 there.

I guess that is why when i went to purchase it that i was given good customer service and sales advice and i choose to purchase Windows XP 64-bit Edition - which is still happily downloading patches and updates - as we speak......... Maybe i will just join the actinic love in and become an affiliate or partner....it seems easier

Andy

[I-CC]

I did write a rather long post earlier on for this thread and after posting it, then deleted it as the thread had changed direction on whether a title is entitled to a cover subscription and getting the latest version of that title after the release of it, to why should I pay or why should I pay so much.

IMHO: The Cover subscription basis for gaining access to the latest development features in a software title is a valid means for Actinic to finance the development of such new features and software titles, which in the case of v8 is a completely new software title, not just an add-on of features, but a new way of doing things, which once the wrinkles are ironed out, will be an outstanding development system, of that I have no doubt.

Under version 7, someone who purchased it the very first day has been entitled and had free access to every improvement and bug fix in the software since it started up to the very latest patch version which was released, without having to pay a single additional penny for that, which is how we all have come to expect it to be.

However, I do not know of a single software development that does not charge for upgrades in major title versions, with varying degrees of discount applied by differing developers, but what I can tell you is that those that do offer discounts are not obliged to do so, and if I take the view of say RedHat where the price of the Operating System for say EL3 was £300 (not precise just an example here), then to get that one server wiped and installed with EL4 would cost yet another £300, and as it goes, after a year it is no longer entitled to upgrades within that same version, unless paid for by another £300 for a further 1 year worth of upgrades, even if it stayed on the same version for the entire lifespan of the version number (estimated at 5 - 8 years) we have to pay 'year on year' for each installations patch availability. Obviously this is not the general norm for software, but is a real example, with another being if I want to upgrade my Macromedia Studio which costs a little over £700 when I purchased my full version, then my upgrade cost is actually £315, which is only short £35 of a 50% cost of the original price for me to get the latest major version...

So, whilst it has to be agreed that some times an upgrade fee is what might be seen as an additional and 'why' expense, I see it with Actinic as one of the cheapest upgrade path provisions available, even for the likes of Catalog and Business versions, where Cover is subscribed to to gain access to the latest major version change, whilst even without it I am entitled to every minor version changes within the major version number I am licensed for.

The why's and that of offers and the like that may have existed and why someone did not hear about it can be debated all day and not something I wish to get drawn into, but the purpose of this replacement post is to try and place some of this in perspective with how others in the real world of software do business and in many cases, do over charge for the latest versions, for which IMO, Actinic is not one of those companies, for which as a parting statement for this thread being, that it should not be forgotten that Cover not only provides the latest version of the title, but also telephone support direct from Actinic, which can in many cases provide quick solutions to issues or understandings the user may be lacking, which could take a third party not fully aware of all things Actinic a couple of hours to discover or fix, which if you are paying someone for that support, could turn into a hundred quid or more for there time, just to sort that 1 issue, which add 10 such issues and Cover has paid for itself time over, so there is more to Cover than just the upgrade.

This is 1 opinion on software and upgrades from a view here that has to pay masses for upgrades on a regular basis just to maintain patches in the same version, let alone to get the latest version, so it is anoying, but what Actinic do now is fair in my opinion, although if someone did not know about an offer, is conceded that it is upsetting that the boat was missed.

[I-CC]

Sorry, should have also said that the £250 + VAT Developer Subscription is the price for Developer Partners. Not looked at whether this is still valid or not - but was in the pre v8 days as..... To be entitled to the Developer Subscription you need to be signed up as a Developer Partner which I think costs £500 + VAT.

[jont]

Andrew - as a sole trader you are entitled to tax relief against some part of the cost - although not all due to recent taxation law changes - your accountant should be able to advise on the amount of relief (from memory 20%) which will ease the upgrade costs.

I think Malcolm was trying to point out that as you are developing for clients you can offset some of the upgrade costs as part of your design fees ... you obviously won't be don't any upgrade work from v7 to v8 for free so the cost of the software is treated as any overhead to any business. You don't show this as a individual item when biling but it is built in to the overall cost for the works.

I am not an affiliate, partner or have any association with Actinic. I use their software just as I use other pieces of software, e-commerce carts included.