Upgrade From Developer 7

[theirishactinic]

I was not a cover subscriber and spoke to Actinic at the time, they said that they had emailed a newsletter to everyone on thier subcription list which included everyone who had bought the V7 software regardless of if they had cover or not. For some reason many people did not get the newsletter and it was jo who asked a question about its contents which set off a thread about newsletters and the deal on offer.

Hi,
Well that is very interesting information. Can someone in Actinic clarify if this was the case? I would have taken out subscription if i had received this newsletter. So i am now being asked to pay nearly £200 more to upgrade because the Actinic newsletter did not get sent to all their version 7 customers notifying them of the upcoming changes....

Andy

[brian.mc]

Non-Developer's Viewpoint

Don't want to upset anybody, so please take this comment as "tounge in cheek", but considering that most of the correspondence in this post is from developers, and taking into account the hourly rate most developers charge (which, by the way, I think is reasonable), you could all have probably have earned enough to collectively contribute to irishactinic's upgrade costs in the time you have spent posting to this thread!!

Seriously though, I'm a retailer, and from time to time offer special deals to our customers. These are well advertised, and the terms are quite simple. If we say the offer ends on Saturday, then a Monday customer cannot expect to benefit from the deal. Not my fault if they did not know about the offer when it was current.

I signed up for the Actinic Cover last year. I knew I would get telephone and online help for a year, plus an upgrade to the next version if it was released during the cover period.

I was made very aware of the upgrade policy at the outset, and cannot understand what the problem is. In fact, I have been an Actinic user for 6 years, and have always been aware of this policy.

In business, there is a saying:- "let the buyer beware".

This has been incorporated into most recent legislation - if you are a consumer you are fully protected by the law. If you are in business, you are expected to fully investigate any transaction before committing, and not enter into a contract if you are unsure of the terms.

In conclusion, Irishactinic, whilst I sympathise with your problem, I don't think you can lay the blame at Actinic's door. You still have a usable product (Actinic v7), which I am still using, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, as I am not yet confident enough to put my site live on v8.

If I were in your position, I think I would probably want to wait a few months to let Actinic sort out the problems with v8 before upgrading.

By the way, if you are a developer, you probably have more than one client, so the £200 upgrade cost could be spread amongst all of your clients.

I hope nobody takes offence from my comments - I'm just putting a layman's point of view forward.

[theirishactinic]

Don't want to upset anybody, so please take this comment as "tounge in cheek", but considering that most of the correspondence in this post is from developers, and taking into account the hourly rate most developers charge (which, by the way, I think is reasonable), you could all have probably have earned enough to collectively contribute to irishactinic's upgrade costs in the time you have spent posting to this thread!!

Seriously though, I'm a retailer, and from time to time offer special deals to our customers. These are well advertised, and the terms are quite simple. If we say the offer ends on Saturday, then a Monday customer cannot expect to benefit from the deal. Not my fault if they did not know about the offer when it was current.

I signed up for the Actinic Cover last year. I knew I would get telephone and online help for a year, plus an upgrade to the next version if it was released during the cover period.

I was made very aware of the upgrade policy at the outset, and cannot understand what the problem is. In fact, I have been an Actinic user for 6 years, and have always been aware of this policy.

In business, there is a saying:- "let the buyer beware".

This has been incorporated into most recent legislation - if you are a consumer you are fully protected by the law. If you are in business, you are expected to fully investigate any transaction before committing, and not enter into a contract if you are unsure of the terms.

In conclusion, Irishactinic, whilst I sympathise with your problem, I don't think you can lay the blame at Actinic's door. You still have a usable product (Actinic v7), which I am still using, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, as I am not yet confident enough to put my site live on v8.

If I were in your position, I think I would probably want to wait a few months to let Actinic sort out the problems with v8 before upgrading.

By the way, if you are a developer, you probably have more than one client, so the £200 upgrade cost could be spread amongst all of your clients.

I hope nobody takes offence from my comments - I'm just putting a layman's point of view forward.

Hey,

That's great that you seem to be one of the people who actually received noification - i am one of those who didn't receive correspondence. If i were you - i would be very happy too.

Andy

[chris ashdown]

When I studied the actinic sales burp on Version 6 on their site it told me of the options to buy insurance cover which entitled me to a number of calls direct to actinic each year to solve any problems that may come up and this cover also allowed for free upgrades if released that year

At the time I was short of money (still am) but thought it worth the money to get the insurance

Consequently upgraded to V7 developer and now V8 Multi-User, Last years cover could be considered a waste of money, as I never needed the assistance from Actinic and no new versions were released, but to my own peace of mind it was worth it just like any other insurance

I for one are happy with the way actinic support their customers and yes they go it wrong with the release of V8, but they did realise this quite early on and then tried to hold everyone back whilst they tried to sort it out

[jont]

Seriously though, I'm a retailer, and from time to time offer special deals to our customers. These are well advertised, and the terms are quite simple. If we say the offer ends on Saturday, then a Monday customer cannot expect to benefit from the deal. Not my fault if they did not know about the offer when it was current.

Just as you don't advertise the offer 6 months ahead of the deal to stop people abusing the system... or extend the deal if they do not receive the offer.

The cover system in offer by Actinic is there to fund support and development - not as a discount voucher - this is purely a benefit of taking out the cover

[wjcampbe]

Irish,

You say you are suffering

because the Actinic newsletter did not get sent to all their version 7 customers

but for them to do so would have been illegal. Just as YOU are only allowed to send email to your customers who chose to opt in to your mailings - Actinic can only send mail to people who SUBSCRIBE to their mailing service.

Have you subscribed?

If you were actively subscribed to the mailing list at the time of the announcement, you have a grievance which should be discussed directly with Actinic Sales. If you were not actively subscribed - that was your choice.

You can't claim ignorance of the rules surrounding newsletter/announcement email distribution - you are also an online wholesaler/retailer subject to the same rules.

You do still have the option to download the latest full release [or the beta] and evaluate, and you can do that evaluation several times while your business generates the funds you need to buy the upgrade. If you are worried about losing money because you cannot offer a v8 build service to clients now - don't be. I would be surprised if more than a handful of v8 sites actually get launched this year.

In other words - your first post illicited a small feeling of sympathy, subsequent posts have ensured that did not last. Time to let go.

[theirishactinic]

Irish,

You say you are suffering

but for them to do so would have been illegal. Just as YOU are only allowed to send email to your customers who chose to opt in to your mailings - Actinic can only send mail to people who SUBSCRIBE to their mailing service.

Have you subscribed?

If you were actively subscribed to the mailing list at the time of the announcement, you have a grievance which should be discussed directly with Actinic Sales. If you were not actively subscribed - that was your choice.

You can't claim ignorance of the rules surrounding newsletter/announcement email distribution - you are also an online wholesaler/retailer subject to the same rules.

You do still have the option to download the latest full release [or the beta] and evaluate, and you can do that evaluation several times while your business generates the funds you need to buy the upgrade. If you are worried about losing money because you cannot offer a v8 build service to clients now - don't be. I would be surprised if more than a handful of v8 sites actually get launched this year.

In other words - your first post illicited a small feeling of sympathy, subsequent posts have ensured that did not last. Time to let go.

Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to attempt to show off some knowledge of emailing lists - but i am actually fully aware of Worldwide Electronic Data Protection issues.......


As for your "time to let go remark". It was you who wrote the following on the Closed Forum for designers in response to a guy called Nigel who dared to ask on that forum - Why is It A Closed forum?:

Nigel,

Not sure why you have started this crusade, but surely Actinic have the right to decide the content and format of their own bulletin board.

How would you react if a customer came on to you demanding you immediately withdraw a product line because they personally saw no need for it?

You have had your say, now its time to let it rest.

This guy, like me, was simply trying to make a point. But in the land of the Actinic forum - if you are not actually an Actinic developer, you obviously heavily rely on them to sort out all the problems with the software - and there seem to be a lot at the moment - so i wouldn't expect you to actually not jump at every chance to be seen to be as such an Actinic brown noser.

This forum is populated by Developers, and those that heavily rely on them. If someone is persistent in speaking out about certain issues they are met with typical responses like yours.

So, why don't you put a sock in it - and actually let people air their own views and stop trying to be seen as a nice pal of actinic all the time.

Actinic failed to inform me of an upcoming upgrade of its software that was actually purchased less than a year ago (i checked my invoice).

Actinic has actually admitted via email and apologised for not informing me. It has not however offered to make up for it as they obviously need the money that is going into sorting out the latest very bug riden version of its software.

Forums are a place to express our views - if you are confused about this maybe look it up on the net or contact myself or Nigel.

As for your sympathy - i wasn;t looking for it - i was looking for proper customer service - not an exhibition of mutual back slapping and happy actinic clapping - but that is actually what i expected.

Andy

[Duncan Rounding]

Unfortunately Andy as was said earlier you did have some sympathy with others regarding the problem you have ended up in (be it as a result of yourself or Actinic). Unfortunately I think you have now laboured the point too far by passing snide remarks on a number of different forum topics to as many people as possible. I'm not sure what you are tryng to achieve in continuing to doing so, it appears all you are interested in doing is getting peoples backs up. If you want something from Actinic that you feel you are due then take it up with them directly - not this community.

Most people on this community (including myself) have found the knowledge shared here to be an invaluable help in developing and maintaining their Actinic site(s).

Why not do something constructive instead.

[wjcampbe]

I am a user, and far from needing Actinic support (one call in two years - and a couple of posts when I first used the software), I freely offer my own knowledge to other users on this forum (even though I could make money from offering that same support on a commercial basis).

I do willingly accept commercial employment configuring and developing websites in Actinic, but a full time Actinic developer - no, at least not yet.

Strongly opinionated and not frightened to voice my opinion - yes, most definitely - thats where I am.

Nigel, like you was running posts all over the shop that did nothing to promote the aims of this forum - which is to offer peer support.

That means you need help with the software - you come here and post the problem. If at all possible, other users - including me - will help you, sometimes by investigating the problem and devising a solution sometimes by trial and error. Sometimes we can't help and the Actinic employees have to step in.

But the intention of the forum is peer support. Any post that is not asking for software support - or offering it is off topic.

That's my last word on this thread - I'm off to find people who need help.

[theirishactinic]

I am a user, and far from needing Actinic support (one call in two years - and a couple of posts when I first used the software), .

Total Posts: 3,611 (5.82 posts per day) - thats your post count - I am not responding to you anymore - you seem to have a problem telling the truth - something i don't suffer from myself........ And for the record - Nigel had made three posts before you insulted him

Andy

[buspassjohn]

Irish,
please don't insult Bill, he's been more help, to more people, for free, than you can ever dream to be.

For all our sakes, give it a rest.

[theirishactinic]

insults

As i said earlier Buspass

I have been informed by Actinic that their customers are informed by email of upcoming upgrades - i was not informed - now they expect me to fork out an extra £125 because they failed to inform me - who's being insulted? And no i wont give it a rest - untill i am compensated.......

Andy

[leehack]

About 2.5 years ago a good friend of mine had a V6 site built for him, which cost him about 5k in total. It promised much and delivered very very little and was in reality a huge flop. 12 months ago i decided to try and help him out and agreed to have a go at building a brand new site for him. I opened up the V6 software box and lo and behold there was a free voucher entitling him to a V7 upgrade for free. As my mate had never touched this software, he was unaware of this voucher and it ultimately meant that he had missed out on the free upgrade window.

As V7 was out when i took on the task, it was sensible for me to create the new shop in this version. However, we only had V6 and by this time would have to pay for V7. I phoned Actinic and they recognised this and did us a deal as the designer was really at fault. We got V7 at a reduced cost and also bought the Actinic cover. Cover ran out in September, right on the deadline for the V8 release, however to their credit Actinic did not play funny buggers and duly upgraded us to V8 as part of the support package.

They have treated us great and it's not a case of kissing ass or patting backs. By speaking to them in a coherent manner and explaining the situation, they were very reasonable and ultimately we both came away from the transaction happy.

Whenever things will change in the future, it is always a gamble at any stage when you buy something that could soon be outdated. With development time and marketing, Actinic have to careful on what they commit to and what they say. Many of us were desperate to have a date for V8, as far as i know we never got it until very close to the day.

There are many misfortunate things that happen in life, where certain circumstances dictate that we get the rough end of the stick. i.e. the kid that has to start school almost a year older than everyone else as his birthday misses the deadline or the person who has to work for an extra 5 years before retirement because of a day or two on the wrong side of the new laws.

Short of it is, that you have a piece of software that is far from defunct and will still be used for many years to come. V8 will be so sparce for the next 6 months IMO. You started this thread and i felt for you, having read your incoherent arguments and personal attacks, i now have no sympathy whatsoever. If you have spoken to Actinic in the same manner in which you have posted on this forum, i am not surprised you feel pissed off and got nothing off them. If you shout and rant, people do not listen, if you discuss in a sensible manner attempting to attain a satisfactory ending, then you might just get somewhere.

Speak to Actinic and see what they can do for you, if you feel so strongly. As has been mentioned previously, very few of us are Actinic staff and come here to help and assist and learn if we can in our own spare time. You may well need the help of some of the fantastic people on this forum in the future, don't bite the hand that might feed you.

[theirishactinic]

manners manners manners

Hi,

I don't need an excersise in manners. I spoke to Actinic, in a very polite manner very early on in all this - and was told it was £425 - end of story, sorry we didn't inform you - but its £425 and thats that.

I HAVE NOT EVEN HAD THIS SOFTWARE FOR 12 MONTHS!

I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out this is not good customer service - i am very glad for you that your experience was.....

And thank you for highlighting the fact that people should feel afraid to speak out here - because they might be seen to be biting the hand that feeds them..... and they might not get help in the future....for making a very simple basic COMPLAINT about BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE! Why else do you think there is so much actinic hugging going on.........?

Andy

[leehack]

There isn't a company in the world who has 100% satisfied customers and more importantly, there never will be.

There isn't a forum in the world without members who are totally unprepared to accept other opinions and revert to quite personal attacks at times, there never will be.

Some of your previous posts have overstepped the mark, which is why people have stepped in and ultimately nobody now cares whether you have received bad customer service or not. This thread is as good as dead, so please just back down with a little dignity and some manners.