Consistently Repeated Lazy Requests

[completerookie]

sorry Chris, take a look at the vBulletin forum and for instance this thread
here they talk about the "fulltext Natural" and fulltext boolean"
alternatively, leave a messgae on their forum, I'm sure someone will get back to you quickly.

[jxm28788]

Maybe lessons on how to phrase the Title would be more benoficial as this is the weakest point on quick searches in that the title is meaningless

Another problem that doesn't help is the forums search facility. Sometimes it really is pretty poor at finding good matches.

Last week I was searching for something, I forget what, but there were two words which when used together should have provided a highly targeted search on a topic that I can bet had been asked many times before.

However, the search decided that it was going to ignore one of the words beause it was too 'common', and with only the other word in the search I got hundereds of irrelevant results. Bizarrely, the 'common' word it ignored wasn't that common, and was certainly less common that the word it left in...

Maybe the engine can be tweaked so that if I put a phrase in quotes then it searches on that exact phrase, regardless of how common/short/whatever it thinks any of the words in that phrase are...? (Is this what the 'full text' search option does or is that something different?)

[10outof10]

Search Function

Couldn't agree more.

As a "newbie" poster in here, I have found it fairly frustrating trying to find a specific answer to a specific question and have typed in what I thought to be a useful phrase or list of words only to find 8+ pages of results.

As my first EVER post on here was answered merely with a link to this thread members of this forum either have to put up or shut up when people like me posting "Consistently Repeated Lazy Requests". If we lazy people do need occasional help, and you old-timers have heard it all before then please bare with us.

[leehack]

Paul

It's very important here to differentiate between helping and designing. If you do not want to employ a qualified designer to do your work, then you have to be prepared to put hours and hours in yourself. When each of us were introduced to V8, we spent hours learning it for the good of our clients, this forum and also ourselves.

There has been a spate of posts lately where people are coming in here demanding help almost and misunderstanding that 99% of the help you get in here is provided by people who have bought V8 just like you, they are not Actinic staff.

You mentioned that you have used the forum for sometime, yet i see you only joined yesterday. I therefore presume that many of these old-timers have helped you over the past on posts you have read (before you joined), unless your joined date is actually your first encounter of this forum.

The very first post in this forum "NEW USERS - Please read this" gives some great tips on using the expanse of knowledge that has been built up over the past few weeks. It also mentions to give your threads a meaningful name as it may just help somebody in the future. If somebody wants some help on the same issue as you did, its highly unlikely that they will search for "aaaargghhh" as you called your first post.

Welcome to the forum.

[brian.mc]

Couldn't agree more.

As a "newbie" poster in here, I have found it fairly frustrating trying to find a specific answer to a specific question and have typed in what I thought to be a useful phrase or list of words only to find 8+ pages of results.

As my first EVER post on here was answered merely with a link to this thread members of this forum either have to put up or shut up when people like me posting "Consistently Repeated Lazy Requests". If we lazy people do need occasional help, and you old-timers have heard it all before then please bare with us.

Read this thread and the original post from 10outof10.

I have to agree. Whilst it may be very frustrating to have the same questions asked over and over again (we all experience this, no matter what our profession!), we have to remember that, although we may have heard it 100 times before, it's the questioner's first time!

I read the replies to 10outof10's original thread, and one expert simply directed them to this thread, which was of no practical use to them, but Bill gave them a link to a solution. Good on you Bill! In my opinion, that's what this forum is about - if you can help, then do so. Maybe, as a result of Bill's positive response to their question, they will continue to use the forum, expand their knowledge, and might be able to help another newbie a few months down the line!

I think the best course for the experts/designers etc is to simply ignore a post if you aren't inclined to answer it properly. There's simply no need to insult someone just because you don't want to answer their question.

Remember, we all had to start somewhere!

[leehack]

One of the things which is trying to be addressed is the amount of knowledge and help that is already here that people find hard to find or do not bother looking for. You will note that a new post has been added which provides some direction on how to get the best out of the forum and brings together all the information available.

If somebody posts a subject that has been touched on many many times, they are guaranteed to get a far better answer off previous posts. If a previous problem has 30 replies which all collectively come up with a solution to the problem, that is hours of work already there and will be far quicker, more detailed and far more efficient at getting them an answer to their problem. Its not just a case of boring boring same old question, lack of search etc. it is actually far far better as a user with a problem to see a previously detailed thread.

A few of us along with Chris the moderator are trying to come up with a solution to make this forums information easier to find. Almost every problem you will encounter with V8 has already been touched on somewhere. The search facility is very poor and this is hopefully being addressed. This is why it has been asked to have useful headings to posts, as headings such as "arrrrgggghh" just hide the wealth of information and make it difficult to find.

I dont think the forum needs to go down the lines of "well just ignore them" as this attitude will eventually result in a forum with little information. What does need to happen is that the information needs to be collated and made more accessible, new users need to be prepared to get stuck in and collectively we all need to work together to create a community that helps you when you are stuck. Stuck meaning that you've given it your best shot and totally lost, not i'm into my 5th hour of this software, i can't be bothered anymore, can someone do my work for me without me paying them.

I have not seen one person ignored in this forum who is prepared to get stuck in, has lost their way but has shown a genuine interest in solving a problem and not just given up at the first hurdle.

The experienced users in this forum have been of huge help to me, without them i would have certainly failed and had to pay for professional design service. It is unfair to rely so heavily on these people, we collectively as a forum can do far more to help them.

[cdicken]

Back to the post about searching, I've now found the options, but I think it'll need to be something done late at night in order to not interfere with all the posts. I'll do it tonight.

I think this should help make the search rather more accurate.

[10outof10]

Thanks Lee and Brian,

I went back to change the title from "aaaaaaaargh" ( caused by 4 hours of frustration) ) to a more useful name.

Indeed Lee; I have been coming in here for a fair few years, and have found the forum most useful. usually for general reading rather than to find a specific solution; hence why I probably found it difficult to find an appropriate answer to the "aaaaaaaargh" question as not used to using the site for that purpose.

I agree with you about "demanding" help. That's simply people trying to get something for nothing. It would not have bothered me if no one responded to my original post and would have carried on in the same fashion trying to work out the problems (as I have for the past 7 years) for myself. I fould it a little harsh to be redirected to a thread about lazy posters however as I was neither demanding free time from developers or any other user. Just a little nudge in the right direction which Bill kindly supplied.

Any forum, especially one as busy as this (55 pages of threads for v8 alone) , is bound to revisit the same question over and over again as new users come on line; a lot will have very basic knowledge of how computers work, never mind the inner-depths of actinic.

So, long may the forum continue with, hopefully, the understanding that if one come's across a thread one can help with - help. If not................... move on by without feeling it is a requirement to be rude or sarky

[los_design]

Good work Chris, a more robust search will help all concerned me feels.

On the other points raised, I have to say that the theme of this topic is somewhat of a surprise.

Whilst I understand the position taken by many of the 'old-timers' I have to disagree strongly.

As professionals, how many times do we get asked the same question by clients? both new and old...what would you say to them....check your email reply, did you not write down what I said when I first told you?

Of course you wouldn't. Peer to peer support is a great chance to assist all parties no matter what their experience and above all else, you have the choice to read it, reply to it or do nothing.

After all, we do not know how long the individual has tried to resolve this for themselves, tried to search without success or indeed what level of frustration they have finally reached or encountered before posting.

The most annoying posts IMHO are the ones that state..answered earlier or search the forum....if that is the stock reply, why waste your time replying?

A simple, polite cross-reference will be more productive and enhance the impression of all concerned in a positive and professional light.

Lets get back to the good hearted, like minded support that has made this forum what it is today and of you see a post that you do not like...pass it over and move on.

As stated, I do understand the frustrations stated on all sides but negativity is not goooooooooood

JMTC now back to work.
Regards and best wishes
Daren

[jxm28788]

A simple, polite cross-reference will be more productive and enhance the impression of all concerned in a positive and professional light.

I agree, but just to build on that suggestion - how about listing the search terms used next to the link?

There have been a couple of occasions where I searched for ages under as many keywords and phrases as I could think of then I eventually gave up and started a new post only for someone to reply very quickly with a link to a relevant post, leaving me wondering what they heck they searched on to find it so fast!

[los_design]

Excellent point John.

A robust search system will help all concerned so more cudos to Chris and his team as they tweak with VB.

I cannot advise on this board I am afraid...my feet are firmly rooted in the invision camp

[wjcampbe]

how about listing the search terms used

But we do!

The posted links automatically carry the search terms as parameters at the end of the link.

[jont]

leaving me wondering what they heck they searched on to find it so fast!

It is often down to having read the thread or being involved with it that jogs the "old timers" memories to find an existing thread to point to.

This is a "forum" not a "helpdesk" so there will always be someone around to point the question in the right direction if it has been asked and answered before.

Other than the goat we are mostly all human - human nature shows we get upset, annoyed and short of patience at times (whether with paying clients or forum support) with this in mind best to let the thread slip by you and let someone else get involved and as the thread starter not get annoyed at short shrift answers as someone else will be along in due course to assists.

On the flip side is the belief in self-help is the best form of learning which is possibly why the original reply to "aaaarghhh" was directed to this thread as a means to genuinely help the poster rather than offend or upset.

[10outof10]

Self help

Good points jont,

Rather than get upset it got my back up. In the same way when you let a car out in front of you, all the other driver needs to do is wink, give a little wave, on lift a finger in acknowledgement, if the guy who posted the link to this thread had simple said " Have a peek at this", or "I'm not going to help you but read this thread"............ in fact almost anything apart from just the link would have been more friendly. Added to tha tfact is was my first post.

I have to put my hand in the air and admit I am struggling with getting to grips with v8. I am so used to the way V3,4,5,6,7 worked, there is a giant leap to v8. I am not a programmer, not a developer so will be coming back for more help ( and boy I mean lots of help) in the future. Hope you all don't take too much offence if I ask any stupidly obvious questions.

[Darren B]

Chris How did the search adjustments go, how many more late nights?

Paul (as Jonts new marketing director) i feel i could make a few comments on his behalf, The Goat please do not be alarmed, shocking keyboards check what version, christmas is around the corner and some have been on the sherry already?

As you trawl the forum day and night looking for answers you may come across these references may i suggest you seek immediate advice if someone offers you any of these cheap. You can find the thread here http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?t=21057 Please use this thread wisely and do not throw caution to the wind (he gets upset when everyone throws him around)

Have fun and i hope i can assist you at sometime, although i normally get beaten to the answer

Cheers
Darren