FAO Actinic - 8.5.1 Folder Relocation

[leehack]

I need an answer to this please as this is going to be one big headache in the future i feel, unless i have missed something.

A lot of clients (i am finding lately) want to do the product inputs, but they want a designer to design the site and move layouts to suit etc. This often means that they have started the design and placed the images etc. and then i get a snapshot and place a design over the top when they have finished.

When they install the software their end, if this software/site split occurs on the install, then their images get stored in My Docs, which is the totally opposite to how every designer is currently working. Therefore, when we come to import the snapshot, every image has a full C: path to it and it obviously does not exist our end, so every single product results in an error message on the image location and is unworkable.

My last 4 sites had all been built in 8.5, so i have just upgraded with relatively few problems, however the one i wanted to start today has been started at my clients end on 8.5.1 and the software/site split is how he has it. On importing the snapshot it failed and having explained wtf i thot was going on, he agreed to go and reset the architecture to how i have it now, so that we could at least swap snapshots with ease.

Luckily he was accomodating as he'd only done a handful of products, however if it had been any of my last 4 sites, there is no way in the world i could have done this as they had input hundreds of products.

I therefore have the following questions, which i'd appreciate answering please:

1. How as designers can we work on a site that has this different structure, when ours is the normal old way?
2. Why when they install the new software does it not simply ask if they are using Vista, if they say no, just proceed as normal like we always have done?
3. If they are on Vista and have to split it, what can we do to make the snapshot work?
4. Do we now need to buy a second system and set it up for working on sites with a split hierarchy?
5. Why are installs defaulting to the Vista setup, when it is the severe minority at the moment?

[RuralWeb]

Well said Lee - the change in folders is really messing thing up. As you say the minority use Vista so why force it on everyone.

[Bruce]

Hi Lee,

I will pass this on to the development team and keep you updated.

Kind regards,

[leehack]

In addition to the above answers, which i think we will all need an answer to, can we get something in place where you actually talk to us and let us know when things like this are happening?

I promote your product on my own website and i design ecommerce sites using your software. When i get a client talking to me about something like this site hierarchy split, i can be made to look a right pratt as i haven't a chuffing clue what they are on about. I can make myself look a pratt without your help, so how's about something either cascaded in the designers forum or a newsletter or email or anything?

I know you resist in talking to us on many parts of your improvements as you know best of course, however fundamental changes in how the software will work are mandatory to be cascaded, if you want us to continue selling and using your products. It's 2007, why on earth do i have to dig my wifes laptop out and try a fresh install of 8.5.1 to find out what you have changed in this software? We get NO idea that this is occurring on our existing software as we are just upgrading and not fresh installing.

Please, Please, Please start talking to us and letting us know wtf is going on, if you don't, i can only see a slow movement away from a product which we have all been pretty happy with to date. Yes communication has improved vastly, but don't sit on your laurels, it still has some way to go yet to reach what should be the norm in 2007.

[george]

why on earth do i have to dig my wifes laptop out and try a fresh install of 8.5.1 to find out what you have changed in this software? We get NO idea that this is occurring on our existing software as we are just upgrading and not fresh installing.

Lee, sorry to go off topic a little mate, but does the 8.5.1 version create a Site1 folder in the old location as well as the new one, or just the `My Docs` location? (Assuming its a totally fresh instalation you did on the laptop with no old v8 folders lurking around?)

[leehack]

Hi George

Completely fresh install - actinic virgin. You get an Actinic V8 folder in both locations, in the my docs you have sites | site1 and in the program files folder it has all of the other normal stuff.

So Just the sites part of what you are used to seeing goes in the my docs area. They have effectively lifted the sites folder out of the normal place and included it into an Actinic V8 folder which sits in my docs.

[Jan]

The change in folder location on upgrade is causing problems with Mole End One Stop Order Processing (a fresh install appears to work fine), we have betas and workarounds available though, so just email our support desk for details if you are having problems.

Regards,

[leehack]

The plot thickens.

My test install yesterday did the site split install to see how that goes and works etc. Well now i have just had a call off client and been told it's impossible to have the installation all within the same folder like we do now, there is no option to do this.

I have just deinstalled the laptop to try this and this appears to be true, so i have a client about to buy multi-site who is waiting for some instruction and a designer telling him apologies for this, hopefully they have replied on the forum.

What a shambles Actinic, so fkin frustrating.

[cdicken]

I've created a description of this change and posted it to http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?t=30219

You've all made some really valid points. Unfortunately, we have been very much caught on the hop by Vista. The final release candidate worked fine with Actinic, but the actual released version didn't. As a result, we've been in
catch-up mode since.

The honest answer with respect to this problem is that we didn't think it through properly, and I have to agree that we haven't communicated it well
either.

In the ideal world we would have delayed this change to a major version. The problem is that we would have had a big and growing problem with Vista users. It's impossible to win when MS changes things at the last minute.

In the meantime, we will look at changing our QA process to test much better how web designer site deployment is impacted by each new release.

I think there are a few pieces of incorrect information on this around the forum though.

1) Actinic will never move your data when upgrading to 8.5.1. If you do an upgrade without uninstalling first, Actinic will keep using the 'Sites' folder within 'Program Files' - it won't move anything.

2) If you keep all your images within the site folder (e.g. Site1 or subfolders within Site1) Actinic still uses relative paths. So Lee - you should be able to import the snapshot from your customers and have it work fine. There's something else happening here, and I'll be happy to take a look at the snapshot for you to see what's going on.

[leehack]

Chris, on fresh install, you can only choose custom right? as the other 2 options are my documents related, however whenever you choose the custom option you get an error message as you are trying to put it within a folder that is not empty.

Can you run through a fresh install, where i can setup a new pc with actinic the way we have always worked please, i cannot see how this is possible, it gives error messages when you try.

PS - Thank you for a straightforward and honest answer.

[pinbrook]

Personally I HATE the fact it now suggests and defaults to MyDocs.

If you are going to rethink this it would be better to stop the install at this point and force people to browse to a chosen directory. Or at least make people realise they are accepting the default MyDocs.

It is very easy to miss this extra step, and very easy to choose the wrong options, I can see in the future loads of posting saying "My boss is on holiday, I can't access his MyDocs to run actinic." or similar.

Whats wrong with the install creating a data folder? ie C:\Actinic v8\DATA\sites\ etc or what ever the programfiles path was but simply excluding the program files bit, at least we stand a fighting chance of finding the path, this would also make it easy for those of us who use different drives, we could at least have the rest of the path matching.

[cdicken]

Hi Jo - I've moved your post here. Hope that's OK. I want to keep the sticky post as pure information. I totally take your comments on board though. The implementation was very badly thought through.

[pinbrook]

No worries, I keep changing it though as more ideas come to mind.

[leehack]

Ive just set up a new PC and have it sitting here waiting for a way to set this up as we always had it. This is an actinic virgin and the screen is sitting on on the install screen, so whenever you can help it'd be appreciated.

Everything i try tells me i can no longer setup a site as we have always done it before, error messages are fired everytime you try.

[cdicken]

Lee - I've just this minute updated
http://community.actinic.com/showthr...707#post166707 with the details.