Announcement

**leehack** · 08-Jul-2007, 03:28 PM

Quickbooks is a decent package, but i would never consider using it with actinic, it's a pretend link IMO. I would have to use Sage if i went down that route at all. If i was already using actinic, i would rather move my accounting onto sage, than i would my ecommerce software onto something new.

Two different packages, two different pieces of software, there will always be problems as the development of one, does not have any impact on the other. They both move in their own direction and try to talk to each other along the way.

As for a refund, i don't think you have a chance or a leg to stand on, you could have trialled V8 for the 12 months it has been released, without any cost or inconvenience. Having said that, if you kick up enough dust on the forum, actinic seem to jump in and resolve it.

As for developers and vested interest, that really is the biggest load of bolx i have heard this year, the developers are the most critical of this software and always have been. Create yourself a V8 store, add your own design and keep the nuts and bolts as they have been designed - and you will find actinic V8 as good a package as any.

We are positive about V8 on the whole as between us, we have 100's of successful, perfectly functioning actinic sites live, that speaks far more volumes than one or 2 bad stories like your own.

I personally, would not recommend or push my customers into actinic for any other reason than it was the best for their needs. I am trialling a new ecommerce software package at the moment, if it proves to be better than actinic, actinic will be dropped like a lead balloon. The grass is not always greener, if i ever find it is, i will jump ship faster than you could shake a stick.

**pinbrook** · 08-Jul-2007, 04:12 PM

In the past month, since upgrading to v8 and trying to implement Quickbooks Link, my sales are down 75%. Largely due to Actinic-related downtime and my having to spend so much time fixing the shop rather than actually selling.

Sadly we seem to see alot of site owners complain about downtime on sites simply because they were uploaded and put live without due recourse to thorough testing. New sites/upgrades should be developed in the background and let to affect the day to day selling on the live site.

If livelihood depends on a website then it is compulsary to test it properly before sending it live. This is not an attack on you Peter, but I've seen lots of posts from site owners who upload and then cry wolf, so its worth commenting again , TEST, TEST and RETEST. Only go live when you are absolutely confident it works including all bells and whistles and external links. Granted it takes more time and planning to run parallel systems but....consider the result if it goes wrong.

In this situation you can reload the v7 site assuming you have a decent v7 snapshot. But you will have to take steps to export all your v8 order info to spreadsheet in order to have complete records for VAT/TAX as you will not be able to get v8 orders into v7, unless you manually enter them as offline orders.

**PeterThake** · 08-Jul-2007, 05:42 PM

Actinic 8 is buggy

Pinbrook: Fact - there is a known bug that can stop the marketing features from working and stop Actinic working. It is unfixed and so is present on all live Actinic v8 shops. If Actinic failed to spot it then it is damn unfair to say that I should have picked it up in my testing. Didn't your own testing prior to rollout pick it up?

That said, thanks for the info on the v7 snapshot.

I stand by what I have said. Actinic 8 is buggy. Lee, I would rather change Actinic than change Quickbooks. Sage is not that good. And Quickbooks is not the application that is broken.

"Create yourself a V8 store, add your own design and keep the nuts and bolts as they have been designed " - Lee, this is what I effectively did. The bugs are not related to this being an upgrade. The bugs affect new stores built from the ground up. See my other posts.

All that Actinic Support could suggest was that I work aound the issues by disabling loads of functionality. This is the functionality I spent �900 on. I said that IMO Actinic is not fit for purpose and I was then told that a refund would be a possibility if the workaround was not satisfactory. You must remember that a primary reason for my upgrade was to get the Quickbooks Link and the marketing features. Presently the two are not compatible or functioning.

I stand by my statement that Actinic deveopers have a vested interest in bolstering the reputation of Actinic. It is human nature - their livelihoods depend on sales of Actinic. You yourself said in another thread that "... 8.5.1 is the best and most stable version of actinic i have personally worked with" and I have to say bolx (

); I have used v7 for ages without any problems. I wish the same were true of v8.

Pinbrook, in a previous life I was a systems developer and programmer. I know duff programming and poor testing when I come across it and IMO Actinic 8 was not ready for release. As I said once before, heads should roll at Actinic.

As for my doing sufficient testing prior to rollout, I did!!! I am quite insulted by the suggestion I did not. I spent about 3 weeks converting and testing everything, especially the Quickbooks link. Everything seemed fine. But I did not go as far as volume testing or load testing. When buying software I do not expect to have to undertake full-scale unit/integration/system/user testing. No user purchasing a commercial product should have to undertake that sort of level of testing. When buying a product a user can reasonably expect the product to be fit for purpose and should be able to have a good level of confidence in the product they have purchased.

"Sadly we seem to see alot of site owners complain about downtime on sites"? Could this be because the software is poor? Or is it easier to blame the user?

**pinbrook** · 08-Jul-2007, 06:31 PM

Didn't your own testing prior to rollout pick it up?

Not sure what you are referring to here, I don't test for Actinic, I'm a user like you are, i test stuff that is relevant to sites i develop.

Pinbrook, in a previous life I was a systems developer and programmer. I know duff programming and poor testing when I come across it and IMO Actinic 8 was not ready for release. As I said once before, heads should roll at Actinic.

Funnily enough so was I. But I also accept that the systems I used to work on were designed for one user and not the millions of permutations actinic has to contend with

As for my doing sufficient testing prior to rollout, I did!!! I am quite insulted by the suggestion

I phrased my reply to be general and specifically said they were not intended as an attack on you.

When buying software I do not expect to have to undertake full-scale unit/integration/system/user testing. No user purchasing a commercial product should have to undertake that sort of level of testing. When buying a product a user can reasonably expect the product to be fit for purpose and should be able to have a good level of confidence in the product they have purchased.

I do hate this "fit for purpose" phrase that lots of people use when they use software that has hundreds of features, but doesn't have the one they want. Actinic has to be fit for purpose- how many sucessful sites inc v8 sites are live, and very sucessful?

My 30 days of free support have just ended and I am no longer entitled to any telephone support. Even if the issue relates to a known bug

you can still get email support

Or is it easier to blame the user?

In life too many workmen blame their tools

Anyway its up to you to decide how to proceed, I am sure with a little bit of perseverence you can get your site working to your satisfaction, its would be a shame to bail out now.

**leehack** · 08-Jul-2007, 07:02 PM

Peter, i'm not going to get into a tick for tack discussion as i can feel how totally fked off you are and it will achieve nothing anyway, what i will say is this:

V8 when it was launched 12 months ago was a disgrace, subsequent bug fixes and incredibly poor communication and poor knowledge on their support desk has also been a disgrace. But, for me with what has gone on in the last month or so and 8.5.1 now running many stores without problems, i think they have finally turned the corner and more importantly LEARNT. The future looks rosey from here, the V8 we have now is what we should have had 12 months ago - but we cannot begin to understand the financial side of a small company needing some revenue.

It has been sometime since i had any big problems with V8 and things run pretty smoothly nowadays. There are things that rack me off, they are so backward at times, but as a complete overall package, i think it represents good value for money.

The problem with the software is that is has to please so many different people in so many different areas and all for �450/�900. Jack of all trades and master of none - black belt in no-can-do and all that.

Like i said, i am currently investigating and building a site, using another package, i have no allegiance to actinic whatsoever, they have not done a single thing for me. If it proves better, then it's bye bye from me. BUT please remember as developers, our lives do not depend on actinic, they depend on clients wanting websites built. What software we use to do that is down to our experience and knowledge, if you think my or many developers businesses would go under without actinic - you are very mistaken indeed.

Actinic is no more important to me, than the air freshener on my table - i just like it, it has many things going for it and i can provide good reliable, problem free websites at competitive prices.

**PeterThake** · 08-Jul-2007, 07:11 PM

Imperfect Actinic 8

Hi Pinbrook,

I wasn't implying you were a tester for Actinic. I wish you were

Just that if you were testing Actinic to the degree you suggest then you and many others would have picked up the marketing bug. btw this bug is not related to Link. My understanding is that it can result when anyone turns off the automated product naming and types their own names in. The marketing part then gets its knickers in a twist because it can no longer recognise the changed names. The second aspect of this bug is when a duplicate product is created and causes the duplicate product text field to overflow and f-up Actinic. These are so obvious from a programmers perspective: if you write code that appends data make sure the data fields can accommodate them! Sigh.

I agree 100% with your argument about the permutations Actinic must contend with, but these 2 bugs will affect EVERY user of Actinic v8. Not just a few. Try it and see. Rename a product to a long text field 20 chars long. Create a duplicate product. See what happens to marketing/startup/upload/data. Actually, don't try this - it is a pain to fix and requires under-the-hood tinkering that no user should be expected to undertake.

"I am quite insulted by the suggestion" LOL, I know it was not an attack on me, I am just a bit cheesed off with being held to blame when the failings are not my own.

I have had great support from you all but think it is time to admit there are still problems with Actinic that have yet to be fixed.

"I do hate this "fit for purpose" phrase that lots of people use when they use software that has hundreds of features, but doesn't have the one they want.

This implies that Actinic lacks the features I want. Not so. It claims to have the features I want. I bought it because of these features. But they do not actually work (marketing, link, design preview etc).

"Actinic has to be fit for purpose- how many sucessful sites inc v8 sites are live, and very sucessful?"

Well, right now there is one less. And it is mine and matters very much to me.

Maybe if Actinic would give a timescale for a fix and tell us which bugs will be fixed (they must have a bug-list and a Request For Change type document?) then I might hold on and wait. But to be told they cannot even give an indicative timescale and be faced with an indefinite wait while they (maybe) fix the problems is unacceptable.

"In life too many workmen blame their tools"

Good quote but sometimes the tools are faulty.

Pinbrook, PLEASE prove me wrong. Prove that I am to blame and the bugs I report do not exist. And be sure to correct Actinic who acknowledge the bugs are real. I would LOVE to be able to get my site working ok, with working marketing features and a neat link to Quickbooks. I have spent the last 30 days trying to do so. I have invested a lot of time and efort into getting Actinic working and the last thing I want to do is jump ship. I'd rather be a poor worker blaming his tools than a mug that bought shite tools.

Hey I am getting into this now! Very theraputic

**PeterThake** · 09-Jul-2007, 08:17 AM

Slow Actinic v8

Hi Gravity,

Thanks for your support. Luckily I read about the treacle-like Actinic MU an so I did not purchase the MU version. That would have been money wasted. Now if only someone had spotted these bugs and posted on the forum. Maybe they did and they got banned?

Don't worry about my getting banned, if I am not using Actinic because it is flawed and unusable then I will not need the forum

Besides, I am mirroring this topic elsewhere

Announcement

Downgrade from v8 to v7?

Downgrade from v8 to v7?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment