Duplicate Refreshing Crashing Actinic

[amylouise]

Hi,

We're struggling to understand what has happened, but having uploading a hierachical spreadsheet to refresh our products, when we attempt to refresh the duplicates, Actinic crashes.

It seems like the duplicates can no longer be found, however they still have the same Product Reference.

If we delete and remake the duplicate the refresh is absolutely fine, however we have 1000's of these and we really can't remake them for every product.

Has anyone had any problems similar to this and is there anything in the hierarchical fields that we should omit to keep the duplicate links? The spreadsheet that we use has been taken from a downloaded one.

Any assistance would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Amy

musthave : the natural skincare store
http://www.musthave.co.uk

[leehack]

What version of the software are you using? If not the latest, then upgrade.

[amylouise]

Version 8.5.1.0.0.0.HFUA

Thanks Lee,

I think we're up to date : Version 8.5.1.0.0.0.HFUA

Amy

[PeterThake]

Product reference bug

Hi amylouise,

This is exactly what happened to me. It is due to a known and pretty damn serious bug in v8 (including the latest release and patch etc) that Actinic have promised a 'partial' fix for in the nest release. I was told this was anticipated for August. So any day now When this bug hit my site it took several days to fix and has cost me thousands in lost sales (site down time).

The bug is down to renaming product references. This then screws up all duplicate products which are still referencing the original product names. It also destroys all the marketing functionality and will crash the application on startup. Some twit programmer forgot that when you rename products all the related records need this new name.

It is pretty terminal and I had a terrible time fixing this. I had to involve Actinic support. Be warned, they may ask you to use Access to do a manual repair of the database. You may also need to rename products in various tables in the underlying database. You should not be expected to do this. Get them to do it. Not everyone has Access (I no longer have) and so they should fix this for you.

The marketing side is not fixable - you must disable the marketing features effected (best sellers etc).

On the bright side, you can (once you have fixed the references) work around this.

You may be able to tell I am not too impressed with this unwanted feature.

Or of course, you may have discovered a new bug!!

[amylouise]

Hi Pete,

That sounds like a whole lot of fun!

I'm not sure that we have exactly the same problem as we haven't tried to change the product reference, only update the Extended Info Text.

It just seems to us that it cannot find it's duplicates to update them so crashes at the mere thought of it. The products we haven't yet tried to change still work perfectly. Products that have many duplicates seem to be the worst effected. Because of the nature of our products they appear in many categories Brand/Brand Department/Product Type/Skin Type/Gifts ... To be honest, the duplicates feature was one that we really needed and we were really pleased that Actinic had the functionality.

Anyway, we've sent a snapshot over to Actinic Development and they're going to have a look. I'm kinda hoping that we don't get given the Access Noodle that you were given.

Thanks anyway, Pete and here's to an Actinic problem-free future.

Amy

musthave : the natural skincare store
http://www.musthave.co.uk

[PeterThake]

I'll drink to that Amy! Actinic v8 is a great product that is presently spoilt by a few nasty problems. Roll on the next release.

btw I'd be interested to know what Actinic say - do post here if you get a moment!

[leehack]

several days to fix and has cost me thousands in lost sales (site down time).

Is the 'thousands' added for effect, cos it looks like one big porky to me to try and create some impact? No site owner would accept that surely?

[RuralWeb]

It seems like the duplicates can no longer be found, however they still have the same Product Reference

I fixed a site at the weekend with a similar problem - it was caused by using user generated product references which were too long. When the duplicate was moved actinic decided to remove a few of the last characters which caused a conflicte and resulted in duplicates/products being deleted.

[PeterThake]

Is the 'thousands' added for effect, cos it looks like one big porky to me to try and create some impact? No site owner would accept that surely?

I sincerely wish it was for effect. But I am not exaggerating. My takings during that month fell by about £5,500 if I remember right. During that month I had site down time due to changing host (domain name propogation issues that I had anticipated) and due to bugs in Actinic. So while not all my losses were down to Actinic issues, a good sized chunk was.

As to "No site owner would accept that surely?" Well, I had little choice. What could I do? Sue? Get a refund and downgrade back to v7? Almost impossible once you have gone live. I did all that I could do. I let Actinic know how I felt and we came to an agreement. I can say no more.

Maybe you can now better understand why I was and still am so fed up with the Actinic bugs. And why I do not presently recommend Actinic.

You do not sound so jovial this evening Lee?

[PeterThake]

Is the 'thousands' added for effect, cos it looks like one big porky to me to try and create some impact? No site owner would accept that surely?

PS Lee, out of interest, what whould you have done? I felt my options were very limited.

[leehack]

I sincerely wish it was for effect. But I am not exaggerating. My takings during that month fell by about £5,500 if I remember right. During that month I had site down time due to changing host (domain name propogation issues that I had anticipated) and due to bugs in Actinic. So while not all my losses were down to Actinic issues, a good sized chunk was.

Taking a hit of that size which is predominantly down to the software is a big hit, but surely most of that loss could have been avoided with a correct build and testing process? There's no way your business would have lost that amount had i been in control, that's for sure, but that's the professional vs DIY debate which i don't want to get into anymore if i can help it.

As to "No site owner would accept that surely?" Well, I had little choice. What could I do? Sue? Get a refund and downgrade back to v7? Almost impossible once you have gone live. I did all that I could do. I let Actinic know how I felt and we came to an agreement. I can say no more.

This is where your argument of professional designer vs DIY stands out like a sore thumb for me. No half decent professional designer would find himself in such a pickle and this is one of the things that you pay for when you use a professional. A professional would have had your V8 site running alongside on a test domain, making sure all is OK, before there was even any contemplation of swapping over. Even if you did swap over and problems were encountered, a designer would have taken steps and used methods to facilitate an easy fallback. Almost impossible to revert once you have gone live is not in the vocabulary for a designer and your site would have been swiftly returned.

Maybe you can now better understand why I was and still am so fed up with the Actinic bugs. And why I do not presently recommend Actinic.

I understand fully your peed off factor, some of the recent events with actinic have been nothing short of appalling and i have been one of the most vocal on this. Not to create a name for myself or kick up dust, but to get them to get their arses into gear and stop screwing this software up. There fk ups mask so much of the good work going on, they will join us in 2007 eventually. They are on the edge of involving us now. Undoubtedly, we have to have one more major balls up before they do this, but we are nearly there. I was always told 'if 6 people tell you that you're sick, lie down'.

You do not sound so jovial this evening Lee?

I'm just an honest guy Peter, trying to work very hard to support his family. When somebody skews my words or turns them around to try and achieve personal gain, i find it a little annoying and shallow, but hey i only control my actions. Ever since i joined this forum, i have spoken from the heart and said what i feel to be the honest truth. I don't ever recall trying to do or achieve anything underhand. I resent insinuations of this.

[leehack]

PS Lee, out of interest, what whould you have done? I felt my options were very limited.

You should have fully tested on a test domain, proved that you had full operation and then before swapping over, ensured that you had a full rollback procedure. As a designer i have to do this as standard (in all honesty to cover my back), but nevertheless it is how things have to be.

Before web design i was part of pretty hefty projects which mostly went live after 6-9 months of work at the flick of a switch. Rollback and service continuation are natural to me nowadays because of that project work. But to many they are things done after the horse has bolted. Like most things in life, experience is so valuable at times.

[PeterThake]

Not that old "you should have tested better" argument? This was thrashed out in the 'Downgrade from v8 to v7?' thread. Actinic is a consumer package. I did not think I was buying a beta release!

I undertook a 'correct build and testing process'. It worked fine. I did not undertake a full system/load/stress/data test. This is Actinic's role. If I want to do that level of testing then I might be better off coding or using open source software (there is some good stuff out there!). Unfortunately (and you have already said this in other posts) Actinics testing prior to release has been dreadful.

"No half decent professional designer would find himself in such a pickle". Hmm, well I hate to say it but you all already are. The bugs affect EVERY user of Actinic v8. Not just a few. It affects you and your customers. And they are show-stoppers, as Amy has just found out. If you tested so thoroughly why didn't you spot this bug? Do your customers know about it? What will you do when your customer changes their product references?

From what you say Lee, do you think Actinic should ONLY be used by 'qualified' developers? I thought Actinic was aimed bot hat developers and regular people wanting to build a quick shop? Should 'ordinary' customers fork out a for a developer? Should they employ a developer to maintain the site thereafter, to 'properly' test each release and site revision? Hardly makes Actinic sound like an off-the-shelf solution.

Skew your words? I am not sure how I did this Lee. I can see no personal gain for me from anything I have said. I sell yo-yos, not Actinic.

I just want less people like Amy to come unstuck.

[PeterThake]

You should have fully tested on a test domain, proved that you had full operation and then before swapping over, ensured that you had a full rollback procedure.

I did! I used a dummy domain to host a test site and tested everything thoroughly, including integration to Quickbooks, Protx, Paypal etc. All was fine. However, like Actinic themselves, I did not find those 2 killer bugs until weeks after I went live.

Rollback? Fair point, but I stupidly hoped Actinic would release a quick fix for such a significant application-crashing data-mashing bug!

[leehack]

Not that old "you should have tested better" argument? This was thrashed out in the 'Downgrade from v8 to v7?' thread. Actinic is a consumer package. I did not think I was buying a beta release!

You have a site that has lost 5.5k, you also use QB. For me, no matter how good or bad actinic is, i would have to convince myself of this working fully. There is too much to lose if i do not. My wifes new car should never need me to top up the oil or water but i always check it. They have been really poor, but the product is too diverse to just expect an upgrade with all fine and dandy. Testing is not about testing the software, it is about ensuring your livelihood remains. When it's something so big, do yourself a favour, never presume anything and always check for the worst. A Ferrari suffers from lack of oil, just like a Fiat Cinquecento does.

I undertook a 'correct build and testing process'. It worked fine. I did not undertake a full system/load/stress/data test. This is Actinic's role. If I want to do that level of testing then I might be better off coding or using open source software (there is some good stuff out there!). Unfortunately (and you have already said this in other posts) Actinics testing prior to release has been dreadful.

They are dreadful and having come to V8 at such a late stage you had literally thousands of posts telling you about the problems we have all been through. I'm not defending actinic in the slightest, i'm telling you that when your business relies on something so badly, you can't justify your poor testing by saying 'it's not my responsibility to stress test etc.' because as the business owner you are directly responsible, much the same that if actinic goes bust next year, that will be their fault.

"No half decent professional designer would find himself in such a pickle". Hmm, well I hate to say it but you all already are. The bugs affect EVERY user of Actinic v8. Not just a few. It affects you and your customers. And they are show-stoppers, as Amy has just found out. If you tested so thoroughly why didn't you spot this bug? Do your customers know about it? What will you do when your customer changes their product references?

If you can find one of my customers experiencing problems (PPP aside), you're a better man than me. This is a site i am currently building on which ALL product references have just been or are currently being changed since the products were initially added. So the showstopper you allude to isn't happening for me, you will note all marketing menus are off at the moment, experience comes to the fore again?

From what you say Lee, do you think Actinic should ONLY be used by 'qualified' developers? I thought Actinic was aimed bot hat developers and regular people wanting to build a quick shop? Should 'ordinary' customers fork out a for a developer? Should they employ a developer to maintain the site thereafter, to 'properly' test each release and site revision? Hardly makes Actinic sound like an off-the-shelf solution.

A designer versus a DIYer discussing this issue, is there an answer? I firmly believe that 80-90% of DIY builds could be improved and made better by a designer, to the extent that whatever the designer costs, this would easily be recouped, plus a whole load more. That is my stance and my opinion - that is all. I firmly believe that V8 although providing an out of the box solution, if you want to move away from that standard look, you do need to contact a designer. The time you need to invest to learn web design is never economical and often plain daft. Concentrate on what you are good at, not what you can get through on a wing and a prayer and 40 posts in a forum.

Skew your words? I am not sure how I did this Lee. I can see no personal gain for me from anything I have said. I sell yo-yos, not Actinic. I just want less people like Amy to come unstuck.

You chose to wear a cap that was not offered to you, you asked why i was not jovial, i explained to you, you took it as directed at you, it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.