Complete CSS Sites. Layout Vs Data

[los_design]

Post your sites here and/or thoughts.

Anyone completed a css site throughout? (including cart)

Is it worth the hassle to convert the cart?

What are the pro/cons to converting the entire site...

Here we go....

[dave_finlayson]

Well here's ours:-

www.sportswarehouse.co.uk

Completely coded in house by yours truly (which took a while since at the beginning, I didn't really know CSS at all)

Full CSS excluding cart. For us, the time to change over the cart to css was simply not worth it and when we are talking carts, I want something I know works, regardless of browser etc etc. So, for me, tables all they way for the cart.

[gabrielcrowe]

my problem with this argument is that it really depends on who you are and how you use actinic.

for example, if you are a company that designs sites for a living, separating your structure (note that i diddnt say content) from your asthetic is very important.

this is so that you can re-use your structure esily for your next site.

but to be quote honest, creating a full css site is far too complex and time consuming for the one site wonders.

[gabrielcrowe]

I want something I know works, regardless of browser etc etc. So, for me, tables all they way for the cart.

Tables are part of the specification when it comes to validation.

It would be foolish to not use a structure designed specifically for tables. In my book, css means breaking the site down into a simple hierachy.

in this case, the table is actually a content item, and is therefore exempt from the 'all or nothing' css nuts out there. css is deisgned in such a way that layout changes are simple to impliment. Content for a site should be shaped by css. not the other way round.

[fergusw]

the table is actually a content item, and is therefore exempt from the 'all or nothing' css nuts out there.

Besides, there are some wonderful examples out there of how you can make tables look beautiful with CSS!
http://www.designshack.co.uk/tutorials/10-css-table-examples

Remember that the W3C has deprecated <font> but not <table>

[leehack]

A CSS site is 100 times easier for a site owner to break, but achieving one would be cathartic for sure. From a commercial point of view i don't think you could code a full CSS site each time and be in the same ballpark (financially) as people who do not.

If you are a part time builder, if you see it as a challenge or if you are in-house and coding it, then these are all possible. But realistically if you are recoding a site in CSS, you have too much time on your hands, you are charging a lot of money or you are a bit anal and just need to do it for the hell of it - all of which i have no problem with.

Commercial designing of websites is a fine balance between providing value for money for the client and putting some dinner on the table. I think there are very few websites released by a designer where he/she would not love that extra day or two to go that extra mile, but if you charge for that time, you probably wouldn't get the job.

It is no coincidence that the best sites we turn out are often the ones that earn us the most money.

Over time i have built up little design snapshots for various areas, for example i always adjust the cart the same, i always add my own fragment layouts, i have my own library of section link layouts etc. but there is only so far you can go. My own actinic store will have taken a month to build by the time it launches, if i entertained spending that time on a clients site, i'd be on a park bench eating from a dustbin, in a very short amount of time.

[jont]

The nested template / layout structure of Actinic ushers a whole mass of complexity when considering a full CSS layout (cart excluded as tabulated data is allowed for compliance and no point trying to convert)... not only are tables flying at you from all directions you also have the implications of browser compatibility as with non Actinic sites.

Once you have done your first CSS site the next becomes a much simpler consideration as the pitfalls and hidden traps are known are development time is reduced each time.. this is without recycling code.

[leehack]

The nested template / layout structure of Actinic ushers a whole mass of complexity when considering a full CSS layout (cart excluded as tabulated data is allowed for compliance and no point trying to convert)... not only are tables flying at you from all directions you also have the implications of browser compatibility as with non Actinic sites.

Throw into that new browser releases, 10 actinic version upgrades a year, higher development costs, plus a site that can be broken pretty easy compared to a table based site and you can just as easy counter an argument for CSS sites at the moment. As with most things, the middle ground is usually the best place.

Once you have done your first CSS site the next becomes a much simpler consideration as the pitfalls and hidden traps are known are development time is reduced each time.. this is without recycling code.

Like everything in life i guess, the more you do anything the better you get, but i do find the recycled code argument quite ludicrous, if you find a successful cross browser setup, to not use that again is plain ridiculous surely? "That trick/hack that got me out of a hole last time can't be used this time as it's recycled code" - lol yeah right, it'd be out of the library in 3 seconds flat. Almost everything you ever do on a site build is in some way recycled, whether that be through learning out of a book, learning from past experiences or just trying something new with the knowledge you have gained.

[jont]

i do find the recycled code argument quite ludicrous

I didn't suggest otherwise... I was saying the next time you build a site it gets easier than last time before you even consider reusing code from a previous job. You know I recycle the "Jont Cart Summary"

This is the beauty of the CSS approach as you can reuse the code in your library and then style it completely different to its previous usage via the stylesheet. You can obviously do this using tables but the structure is more rigid and if any elements require changing this can lead to a longer build time.

10 actinic version upgrades a year

Thankfully this has not been an issue with the CSS layouts. I even changed from v8.5.0 to v8.5.1 (which was a major leap and should have been v8.6.0) mid build with no effects whatsoever.

I upgraded a full CSS v7 site into v8 and other than the nav bar resetting back to default nothing broke in the design.

[danlou84]

Ive fully developed mine from hard code just tidying everything up.. though i used to work for a broadcast channel (not sure if i can say who!?) as a designer so its kinda second nature..

[gabrielcrowe]

broadcast channel

red hot? television x?

[leehack]

(not sure if i can say who!?)

You're not on the BBC here Dan.

[TraceyHand]

red hot?

dutch?

does that even exist still?
LOL

[danlou84]

Ok here's a hint.. go outside and look up at the......

yeah lol I know Lee haha.. Beening to lazy to read forum rules lol just incase..


pps I wish it was tv x or any of the others lol..

[dave_finlayson]

does that even exist still?

Are you suggesting the Nederlands have been wiped off the planet somewhow? Christ I never realised Global warming had advanced so far!