New Users & Documentation

[Stitch]

I'm sorry but I'm going to be quite controversial after a glass or two of wine.
I think Actinic is great but the documentation is 'pants'. I've never paid so much for something that is less well documented.
In February I spent £30k on a garment management system that only 9 companies run that's better documented and the program is 30 times the size (Full ERP). (The support for a year isn't much more either!)

What disappoints me most is a poor 'getting started manual' at 95 pages including contents & index. There' just not enough detail anywhere to do anything well and it's just not in a logical order.
The Advanced user guide is not much better as it seems to be mostly thing written by people on this site with an advanced server set up section that 90% of people are not going to use.

So who is this software actually for. Is it foer the end users? well obviously not as all the documentation would be there!
Is it for you the designers that have ploughed away since V6 and now have to spend your valuable time telling us, the N00bies how to do things cause the manuals are so poor.
We pick up more things here than in the manuals, but that's not what you are here for. How many times do you get asked the same questions? It's not all because we haven't read the manuals, a lot of the time it's due to not understanding, simply because of the way they are written. Overly simplified!
It's about time that actinic stood up for it's product and wrote a decent 'basic manual', 'Advanced manual' and 'Technical Manual' not just copying whats been written here without support, but laid out what they have written and how it should work.
I have had to follow Gabriel's tutorials on 'block if' with help from some very experienced users to understand how to make things happen. The manual doesn't come near to what's on this community and that's the problem!

I want special offers to show on my home page, you would think after Gabriel's writings that would be easy. Not so, unfortunately I can program a 30k ERP system with the help of setting up SBS servers and SQL servers (self taught) but I can't fathom actinic without having to ask stupid questions! My apologies to all that's helped.

Oh just one last thing, I may be slowing down in my old age (42) but I used to run and install High speed 32 page web offset printing machines where 16 meters of paper would be going through the machine every second x 2 webs (32 meters). That teaches you a valuable lesson. THINK FAST! within minutes you can have 5000 magazines on the floor.
I just wish Actinic would think faster, I feel like I get started and then a bit goes wrong and I spend the next 3 hours picking up the magazines on the floor.
Come on Actinic give us a decent user manual written by the people that know how the software works or employ someone like Gabriel to write something for the next release. You don't even have to get it printed a pdf will do.

Sorry again. It's my inner demons at work and a few glasses of red and a need to say something!

Chris

[Goz]

Hi Chris

Welcome to the wierd and wacky world of Actinic.

I shall give you my opinions, after a couple of beers, to balance up your frustrations after a couple of wines.

I see you have signed up with Jont (http://community.actinic.com/showthr...720#post250720)

That is great news for you because he is in the top x Actinic practioners (and, in the context of that statement, x is is a very small number!). Now, I don't want to tread on Jont's toes but, from your post below, it looks like you're going it alone e.g. you talk about looking at Gabriel's BLOCKIF tutorials. If you have a designer of any quality, let alone at Jont's level, you shouldn't need to be thinking about such things - leave that to the developer. So, I'm a bit confused about what you are doing and what you expect others to be doing.

But, back to the point of your posting - the quality of documentation.

It's true that in my 25 years in the software industry I've seen better manuals - but I have seen (and almost certainly written) an awful lot worse. But that is just my perspective of being in the software industry.

I have sold Actinic to clients (OK - just the one in this instance!) who have taken the software and built themselves a shop without any developer involvement. Just them, the software and the "Getting Started" guide. An awful lot of people have taken those steps. Take a look at http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk/ It is a selfbuilt site and, in my opinion, he does tremendously well. Not the best looking site in the world (as admitted by the owner at last weeks' Actinic conference) but it really does the job.

To answer your question "who is the software for" - it is for the store keeper, ultimately, and cannot be for anyone else. You can build a store out of the box and get it live with the documentation that is available. However, the software will also allow you to "get technical" and change the design and functionality to your heart's content. I don't think there is anything else out there that does this but, it is at this point, that the Actinic documentation does not fulfil all your expectations - or mine, to be honest. But it can produce viable sites and, if you want more, that is what experimentation and this community are all about!


However, you confuse me. You mention that you've "had to follow" Gabriel's excellent blockif tutorials - with some help from other experienced users - and immediately follow that up with stating that special offers on your home page is not easy despite Gabriel's writings. I'd be surprised that that combination of help has not resulted in achieving your aims - can we help you here?


Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a pop at you. I've longed for better Actinic documentation - for both users and developers. I have no idea where you bought Actinic from or which version or your arrangement with the vendor, but i guess you will have paid less than £1000 for Actinic software (plus, I presume a bit more for Jont's services). You've paid £30K for a garment management system that's better documented. But you then say the support for a year isn't much more either! - much more than what? Actinic's support price? The £30k you paid for the garment software. We need to understand that because support fees will contirubte to the quality/quantity of documentation.

I look forward to some clarity -partly of your answers but mostly of my mind. Time for bed, said Zebedee!!

[RuralWeb]

documentation has always been a little thin but the vast majority of people manage to produce a working shop which is very good IMO. I see you have also managed to get your store up and running and for much less than 30k.

I use other software eg dw and photoshop which are far more expensive than actinic and come with no documentation at all so things need to be put into perspective. What you are trying to do is beyond the norm is having 3 feeds to the home page so I would not expect that or many of the other things we see posted to be in a manual as it's impossible to cover every option people want to do. Remember actinic is designed as a simple system to get you up and selling very quickly BUT it can do more and that is were I would not expect a manual to cover everything. I expect your 30k wil not allow you to make your own parts for it and add them to try and make it do something different but actinic will.

Jont will solve all your problems so don't panic.

[Stitch]

Hi Andrew,

Jont's not available until later next week (I hope) and I had to get a variable set up to show a picture on certain pages. I then want some special offers on the main page but am trying to bring together examples from different sources. I'm sure the info is there, it's just a case of trawling through yet again!

I'm always of the opinion that you need to do some of the work to understand how the product works, what you are going to pay someone else for and how to instruct them!

As for the other point's, I'll get to those later as I'm off to work now!

[grantglendinnin]

I'd just like to add, I can only assume the documentation isn't as up to scratch because of this. Makes sense, I guess.

[guccij]

The documentation IS there and it IS accessible to first time users. I know, because I am one.

I don't get why people who say they can't make the software work, don't simply ditch the whole project after the 30 day trial and buy something which better suits their requirements.

Moaning about it when you've had every opportunity to experiment with both Actinic's limitations and its renowned tweaking capabilities smacks of, to use my grandmother's phrase, a bad workman blaming his tools.

[meden]

lets not forget also that with a major release every 12 months or so that tends to throw whole new areas of functionality into the pot and renders other areas obsolete that maintaining anything but the most basic documentation (which exists already) would be nigh on impossible

[RuralWeb]

actinic do provide training courses and they are very good. No other econmerce software providors do this and there are lots of third party developers who will visit you for training days.

I quite like comparing actinic to my sports car which cost about the same as your big machine. Like actinic it came with a small user manual of about 3 pages and like actinic it works out the box. It is also highly customizable and I can do anything I want with it but there is nothing in the manual about any of it. Now for 30 grand I could complain that it's not all written down but I test drove the car and saw what I was getting for my money before I paid the cash so I cannot complain.

I now have two choices if I want to make changes is learn to do it mysef or pay a race mechanic to do it for me. Actinic is the same but with better documentation!

[Darren B]

In February I spent £30k on a garment management system that only 9 companies run that's better documented and the program is 30 times the size (Full ERP). (The support for a year isn't much more either!)

LOL if i spent 30k on actinic im sure they would write me a kin good manual aswell.

[Jarvis]

I'm going to look at this from a slightly different perspective.
I have been designing/developing Actinic carts for going on 8 years now and have for the most part had to rely on my knowledge of HTML and CSS, the knowledge base, Actinic Support and this forum to progress.
The documentation, certainly for a developer is a little sparse.

However, for me, the worst part is the lack of familiarity of the order fulfillment and shipping.
As a designer, I have little exposure to the day to day issues of an Actinic cart owner.
I therefore have little working knowledge of either shipping and the accounts side of things.
When I look for help and guidance from all the usual sources, there is VERY little.

Yes, over thousands of users of Actinic manage to run stores satisfactorily, but for many, this is a difficult journey.

[RuralWeb]

it's a difficult journey for many because they enter into econmerce with no plan. I see it time and time again when I ask people how they are going to ship thier products they don't have a clue and expect actinic to be calculate the exact shipping costs based on what! If they don't know then how can a dumb piece of software be expected to do it.

I'm heavily involved in the day to day running of several sites and IMO the shipping etc is very good it's the site owners that generally don't know what they want. Getting shipping info from clients is worse than going to the dentist ime

[leehack]

Getting shipping info from clients is worse than going to the dentist ime

You mean we have to post stuff out, blimey, hadn't thought about that. I will have to take my 7 kids to the post office each day. Oh I know we can sing 'a spoonful of medicine' on the way to keep them amused.

[Darren B]

You mean we have to post stuff out, blimey, hadn't thought about that. I will have to take my 7 kids to the post office each day. Oh I know we can sing 'a spoonful of medicine' on the way to keep them amused.

LMFAO - Tell me about it, you want to see the ebayers in the post office after 3.30

[leehack]

LMFAO - Tell me about it, you want to see the ebayers in the post office after 3.30

Shell Suits R Us.

[Jarvis]

Absolutely spot on the button Malcolm.
Almost without exception, the response I get from clients is, "Our shipping is very complex".
Almost without exception it is NOT!

I had one client who said that he 'Made it up' at the time a customer phoned.
I asked him how he did this.
He said he looked at the parcel, imagined the weight and looked at how far away they were.
Doh!

Their perspective is that because couriers charge different rates for different weights and regions, (or similar), it is difficult.
It is when there is truly a difficult situation that requires a bit more manipulation of the way the shipping is calculated.
Using Categories, Handling, Supplements and Insurance as well as creating new classes and zones.
All simple in concept but difficult sometimes to relate to a strategy.
This to me is where the documentation is poor.

Similarly when there are complex VAT considerations, product exemptions, customer exemptions, secondary VAT rates (5%), 'marginal system' VAT, etc.
Not difficult in their own right, but a nightmare when there are permutations of the VAT on products on one site.
The documentation is limited to telling you what options there are, NOT how to implement them in anything but a simple scenario.

Don't get me wrong, I think Actinic is a superb product, but is poor on documentation at ALL levels.