New Users & Documentation

[RuralWeb]

I did bring up the subject of documentation with actinic when I last visted and saw ben taking notes so it may be on thier radar. The only are I think it really lacks is on the subject of images ie how to prepare them prior to putting on the site bit even so most people seem to manage.

What I see on the forum is people trying to do things that few others are doing and I always ask myself why are they doing it. Usually I can see no real reason other than they think it's a good idea without asking if it's going to make a difference to the customer and sales. New users have no idea of what works and what does not as it varies from site to site and until as site has been running for a few months and usage tracked then it's anybodies guess.

Actinic has evolved over to years to incorporate the best of what works for the vast majority of sites and that IMO is what new users should stick with until they know better from detailed study of how customers interact with thier sites. Once they have that they can then make changes to make best advantage of that data.

Frequently people get bogged down with the detail and features they think will make a difference based on no real data. the user documentation is enough to get you started which I suppose is why it's called a get you started guide. As with anything to go beyond that requires some hard work or cash. Be thankfull you picked actinic because it may look complicated to you but others even with the vast amounts of documentation available are much harder to use.

[Jarvis]

I think that it is also wise to put where Actinic sits in the marketplace into context.

5 years ago, we developed a complete bespoke website, (serverside .jsp), for a well know UK book website.
At that time the cost was in excess of £45k plus ongoing costs.

Today, a sensible budget for an Actinic 'bespoke' site would be circa £2k - £6k.
Out of the box, £450.

The out of box is simple enough and is to a large extent, intuitive.
Better documentation would help, but as Mal says, a lot of people manage.

However, when you get into the realms of any serious modification, then the documentation is VERY sparse.
To my mind it is the realm of the professional who can draw on experience and knowledge to deliver to specification.

I also would question the wisdom of any serious business attempting to build a shopping cart themselves.
For the majority, their time and effort would be far better directed to marketing their site and optimising their costs of materials.
I don't know of many High Street retailers who would build their own shop and fit it out themselves.
Best left to the builders and shopfitters.
On the other hand, there are some excellent DIY manuals...

[guccij]

I also would question the wisdom of any serious business attempting to build a shopping cart themselves.

We are very serious. We built our business ourselves, out of the box, with three different types of software since 2001.

Since moving to Actinic earlier this year, our turnover has risen by 70% compared to the same period in 2007. That tells me everything I need to know about Actinic software and how well it works out of the box.

I understand that designers are always going to have the edge over self-starters and that's fine. But please, don't denigrate those of us who bypass your services and still manage to do well.

[RuralWeb]

I too think that actinic works perfectly well out of the box and as said above people should have no need of a designer to get stared. Keep things simple and there is nothing actinic cannot do without really much effort and knowledge. The problems seem to come when people think they need thier store to look and work like some major high street brand sites. In reality many of these are little better than actinic and actually loose money so they don't know it all. I have seen hundreds of very good actinic sites that have been built with the standard templates I have also seen hundreds of sites built by designers who think they know it all and produce a very nice looking eye candy site but strip out all the actinic basics that make it good in the search engines and so the site makes no money.

Remember the site is for your customers NOT the site owner or the designer to show off his photoshop skils. In todays Market this can only be done by "agile design" - the days of buying templates are numbered. Actinic allows site owners to be agile and respond to the needs of thier customers.

[leehack]

Jules, I understand your point, especially with you being one of the success stories, but don't take it personally. Discussions on subjects usually revolve around what the vast majority should or should not do. As with every rule there are always exceptions and you seem to be one of them.

I take on board your point and i understand what you mean, but don't take things down the self builder versus designer route, when there is overwhelming evidence that 'most' people should at some stage engage a designer. I cannot put into words how many mistakes we see as designers in this area, it really is huge. Often the difference between a good site and one that does nothing is just a few thousand pound, the right designer and more importantly some great advice.

You say in your post, that you've tried 3 different softwares in 7 different years and even with sales improved like you have, it is not beyond reality that you could have been gotten to this status much quicker, much cheaper and maybe even had more success.

Trust me there is nothing more that we as designers like to see than a hard working site owner genuinely interested in succeeding, we are just trying to pass on the experiences from having seen many successful and unsuccessful sites over the years. I hate the way this knowledge and information somehow gets lost in the 'well he would say that, he's looking for work of course'.

Congrats on the success anyway, hope you understand the point.

[guccij]

hope you understand the point.

Yes, I do understand it and thanks for the supportive words. I think this particular debate started with the OP suggesting the documentation/manual was pants. I guess I'm just trying to say that if you want Actinic to create a store, it can be done easily with the manual provided.

I'm a big fan of designers, don't get me wrong, I have already implemented loads of suggestions from you guys which I've read about on here or which have made it into the AUG. I've even paid for a couple And I certainly wouldn't rule out paying someone to take our business to the next level.

[Jarvis]

Jules, I had no intention of denigrating anybody.
I acknowledge that there are many businesses who have the competence to build excellent sites, especially so when there are staff to whom can be delegated the task of building the sites.
Nonetheless, I still stand by what I said, "For the majority, their time and effort would be far better directed to marketing their site and optimising their costs of materials."

The number of people that have been to my offices and have had totally unrealistic expectations of what is involved is crazy; and they are the ones that have come seeking help.
For those that have an idea that they can enter solo into a marketplace that has now become extremely competitive, life will quickly sneak up on them with the real world.

A simple question, soon into any initial meeting with a prospective, often reveals the lack of preparation people can have.
"Who are your competition?"
So often I hear them list the local shops, suppliers etc in the local district.
When I ask who are their main competitors on the Internet, they haven't a clue.
How are you going to make people aware of your presence. Answer, "Google".
How much budget for the whole project including your marketing, "Under £1000".

I DO recognise that there are businesses that have built their own sites and are successful.
Your own is testament to that.

But years of experience in this business have shown me that for many, wishes and hopes have no place in a business plan.

I'll stop there because this is going too far off message.

[RuralWeb]

totally unrealistic expectations of what is involved is crazy

LOL - I see it almost every week but I think we are still on thread in that people are buying actinic and expecting to be able to create an all singing all dancing website.

With the software and the getting started guide you can have a fully functioning website up and running in under 1 hour (realistically though for a new user a couple of days is reasonable) - and that is what actinic is designed to do. If you want to take your site beyond that then yes the documentation is a bit thin on the ground but by that time your particular requirements will generally differ from other site owners so there can be no great manual to cover all eventualities.

As Lee says "at some point" many, not all, get in touch with a designer and move on rapidly from there. I had meetings last week with two of my long term clients who started thier own webistes in Actinic and I redesigned them. They are now successfull and want more sites built by me from scratch - they know that its not worth thier time and effort to do it anymore.

Im not touting for work either - you will almost certainly find that the designers on here are fully booked for most of next year already so there is no need for us to talk sales speak