Another Day - Another BUG!

[Duncan Rounding]

I also agree the private beta was well done, better than previously.
I'd be interested to know the take up and feedback of the public beta.

[auztin100]

Ok thanks. - Lee

[leehack]

So no one ever clicked "increase quantity" on an order, during testing ?

I personally didn't, did you take part in the beta and do so yourself? It simply isn't possible to test all things, it has to go out to the field to be tested.

You have simply either been shafted by a bug or a one off glitch on this particular order for some reason. You are not at fault at all in this area IMO.

[taliesyn]

1 Take part in beta testing
2 Upgrade and use test mode and thorougly test a load of test scenarios
3 participate more fully in this community to make themselves aware of day to day issues.

Who has time to take part in beta testing when they are a) trying to run a business, and b) trying to run an online shop whilst fighting with unexpected issues because of poorly tested software.

It's not unreasonable to expect that the software you are issued with is relatively bug free, and most especially free of serious problems which result in data loss, and neither is it unreasonable to expect to be kept up to date with potentially serious errors when you are paying for a maintenance contract.

I lost about 700 products a while ago due to a known issue, which if I'd been aware of could have been avoided very easily. Fortunately I had the knowledge to export the missing sections from an older snapshot, and import them back into the newest data. It still took me a long time to update prices and check that eveything was OK though.

Why should users be expected to chase up a forum to see what else is a problem when support could simply inform contract holders that if you do THIS, then you may lose data. If I'd been told that the problem existed, then it wouldn't have happened.

Actinic need to communicate with their endusers.

[auztin100]

Who has time to take part in beta testing when they are a) trying to run a business, and b) trying to run an online shop whilst fighting with unexpected issues because of poorly tested software.

It's not unreasonable to expect that the software you are issued with is relatively bug free, and most especially free of serious problems which result in data loss, and neither is it unreasonable to expect to be kept up to date with potentially serious errors when you are paying for a maintenance contract.

My feelings precisely. - Not a good advert for overpriced maintenance cover, on bug ridden software

[leehack]

The problem with common sense is it's not very common.

If you can set Windows Updates to be done at X time on Y interval (Daily, Weekly, Monthly) - perhaps an application can be derived to automatically do backups where you can customise the times they are done - so you can set it to back up at the end of every working day...might be an idea.

I can see a great feature in having an automatic snapshot feature as we have with the database compact now. The issue is that the time this takes is not the greatest on large sites and when people are signing off for the night, waiting 30-40 mins for a snapshot to finish at times is not acceptable.

I do think though it would serve to do a number of people a lot of good and SHOULD be an option you switch off, i.e. you enter into the gun zone without your bullet proof vest, it's not your naivety that has decided.

Before any software is upgraded (version changes) a snapshot should also be instigated automatically to a set folder.

[auztin100]

This may work instead

Thanks, just spotted this, cheered me up a litle

[grantglendinnin]

Who has time to take part in beta testing when they are a) trying to run a business, and b) trying to run an online shop whilst fighting with unexpected issues because of poorly tested software.

This statement is very 'swings and roundabouts' - you can't expect B before A.

It's not unreasonable to expect that the software you are issued with is relatively bug free, and most especially free of serious problems which result in data loss, and neither is it unreasonable to expect to be kept up to date with potentially serious errors when you are paying for a maintenance contract.

Agreed. Communication is 99% the stem of Actinic's problems.

Actinic need to communicate with their endusers.

See above.

[pinbrook]

Who has time to take part in beta testing when they are a) trying to run a business, and b) trying to run an online shop whilst fighting with unexpected issues because of poorly tested software.

this is the crux of the matter as you could argue that if you help test then you will not experience the plethora of bugs. The trouble is that everyone uses actinic in a different way to suit their business - there are 1000's of potential scenarios out there that Actinic can not hope to cover using inhouse testing.

I stand by my comments that if actinic were to introduce a far better testing procedure and involve end users more they would be able to release a less buggy version of the software.

It is also true that end user testing will also help to bridge the gap between how a user expects the software to work versus developer WAD (working as designed)

V10 testing is in the last chance saloon

[auztin100]

V10 testing is in the last chance saloon

Lets hope simple order processing is tested fully

[taliesyn]

This statement is very 'swings and roundabouts' - you can't expect B before A.

Of course you can! An enduser is paying for working software. He is not paying the developers for the privelege of devoting his own time and resources in becoming a beta tester.

Put it this way. If I buy an Antivirus solution, I expect it to work and to protect me against viruses and malware. I don't expect to have to deliberately test it against the things myself

[pinbrook]

Of course you can! An enduser is paying for working software. He is not paying the developers for the privelege of devoting his own time and resources in becoming a beta tester.

Put it this way. If I buy an Antivirus solution, I expect it to work and to protect me against viruses and malware. I don't expect to have to deliberately test it against the things myself

Not a good analagy as AV software is a "it does what it says on the tin" you dont configure it to suit your needs.

I agree with you to a limited extent re testing, but Actinic is moulded by each person to suit his business, therefore you can not expect A to catch every one of 1000's of different scenarios.

I have always said - for about 5 years now - if actinic want end user tesing they must pay people to do it

[taliesyn]

this is the crux of the matter as you could argue that if you help test then you will not experience the plethora of bugs. The trouble is that everyone uses actinic in a different way to suit their business - there are 1000's of potential scenarios out there that Actinic can not hope to cover using inhouse testing.

I stand by my comments that if actinic were to introduce a far better testing procedure and involve end users more they would be able to release a less buggy version of the software.

It is also true that end user testing will also help to bridge the gap between how a user expects the software to work versus developer WAD (working as designed)

V10 testing is in the last chance saloon

I agree entirely. Helping to test is a good thing, and if people have the time and resources to devote to the process then it should be encouraged, but you can't rely on end users to do all of your work for you!

There are many potential scenarios that an in-house test can't ever replicate, agreed, but quite frankly stuff like the plethora of MOTO form problems, not clearing orders due to shipping status not being set correctly, components not adding up correctly, and errors like that are fundamental, and should have been trapped well before the update was shipped.

Problems like you lose data if A, B, and C happen at the same time are fair enough. You can't anticipate those, only do your best to tell people and fix critical errors as soon as possible. Waiting months for another beta version is not acceptable in my mind.

Having worked for > 20 years in software development, interim critical fixes could be issued relatively simply I should think.

Lets hope simple order processing is tested fully

Quite so

[pinbrook]

We both posted at the same time - it seems we agree to agree

[leehack]

Phil your points are very valid and the truth is that software companies get away with murder nowadays, but that is the situation we are in across the board. There are so many systems and so many combinations in play that even when the largest of companies release updates, they can get screwed. The only difference then is that they have the manpower to get it sorted and usually quite quick.

Actinic exhausted many many avenues this time, so i'm intrigued to find out what people think they could have done better, i think these comments are made not really knowing what went on in the background. It's not too often i jump to their defence, some things in the past have been an absolute joke, but in the interest of fairness, i simply have to say i don't think there was much more or anything they could do this time. What i saw meant a firm pat on the back was required this time.

Ask yourself this first - am i going to stay with actinic for the time being? - if the answer is yes, then ask yourself this - is my time better spent moaning and dealing with issues or actually taking part in beta testing to try and make sure that all users including myself have a better experience and don't get these problems.

Remember the time you say you haven't got, is in fact not true, you are in fact just spending that time fire fighting, not fire preventing, so in reality the amount of time is the same, it can just be used in a better way IMO.

20 people like yourself spending time beta testing would make a massive improvement, as a designer i tested the things that screwed me over day after day, we need site owners doing the same from their angle.