Search engine help please.

[bladders]

Can some one give me advice, please?

We have had our website up and running for the last 12 months, on Yahoo and MSN we come up on the first 2 pages under the search term 'Ladders' but on google we are on page 30 or more. Our developer 'said' he has been trying to get the website up the rankings but it does not seem to be working.
Is there something wrong with the website? Or is it just the way it goes with google?

Advice / soultions are very much appeciated.

Bladders
http://www.brownsladders.co.uk

[wjcampbe]

Google lists 79 pages for you - is this accurate? If you have more pages that are not being indexed, try registering for google sitemaps and see if that gets the rest of your pages indexed.

As for the search results - a single word is a bit too wide, try some of your combination keywords, like loft ladders, combination ladders etc - see how you do there.

I did not find any hidden text or anything obviously wrong with your pages (but I did not look at them all).

[Duncan Rounding]

I've recently put my new site online and within three days it seems we have most pages listed (not as high up as I'd like of course) - I was quite amazed, especially as this domain had until very recently been displaying our old framed site that only had about 4 pages listed.

One thing that I did that might have made a difference was to use the new Google Adwords Keyword Tool that you can request to search the full depth of your site (or any other for that matter) to look for keywords - I wonder if doing this effectively forces an index. If you use adwords then give it a try, can't do any harm.

Duncan

[pinbrook]

as it happens, i an looking for a loft ladder at the mo.

when I've been searching on generic terms like loft ladder, timber loft ladder I haven't seen your site, but when I whittled my choice to "Midmade Delux Timber Loft Ladder" and searched on that phrase to do a final price check Browns came up number 1

[bladders]

Have you any ideas on how to get the site on page 1 or 2 for Loft Ladders or Timber Loft Ladders?

[altfocmed]

For loft ladders [http://www.brownsladders.co.uk/acata..._Ladders.html] I suggest making some changes as follows:

1) Title Tag : Loft Ladder [you currently have: <TITLE> Browns Ladders & Ceilings. Loft Ladders</TITLE>]
2) description: loft ladder, aluminium loft ladder, timber loft ladder, sliding loft ladder from Browns Ladders of Lancashire [you currently have: <META NAME="Description" CONTENT="Loft Ladders in Aluminium and Timber at exceptional prices. Free Next Day delivery">
3) url : yoursite.co.uk/acatalog/loft-ladder.html or loftladder.html is better than what you have at present [Loft_Ladders.html]

Make the same changes to: http://www.brownsladders.co.uk/acata...t_Ladders.html but in addition change your product title so that "loft Ladder" is at the start of the title [e.g. - instead of "TLLEF 2-Section Aluminium Loft Ladder" use "Aluminium Loft Ladder - TLLEF 2-Section"]. I would also change the structure so that the products are listed on this page with "click for more info" rather than a link to the product in a sub section [methinks that's one click too many for the buyer]

Hope it helps

[bladders]

Thank you for your feedback, it's very much appreciated!

[Dek]

I agree with altfocmed, in addition, When saying things like "this item" or "click for larger image", I would use variables to display the name of the product.

NETQUOTEVAR:PRODUCTNAME

can be inserted in Act_productline.html or centerproductline etc... whichever one you are using.

On your home page you can turn the bulleted sections at the bottom into links to the items. Use your targetted phrase in the link, take on board altfocmed suggestion of naming with the pages and the link text should match then also creating a good relevant path.

As well as the page tips for engines, what about featuring a product on the front page?

I was involved in a posting yesterday about having too many clicks to get to the point where you can purchase.

Do you review your stats at all?

[bladders]

We have not tried putting a product on the front page. We have a stats function that our developer runs, but apart from that No, we do not check the stats. Do you know the most convenient way of looking at stats?

Unfortunately I have so many things to do, but very little time do do them in. Ha Ha.

[Dek]

stats

There are loads of ways to do this from FREE to a few pounds a month.

Just for starters it is prob easier to jusk ask the developer for regular updates.
This will save you a lot of time and if you can get reasonable data it will certainly get you going.

When you have made changes, watch out for search engines picking you up, quick easy way is to type your url in the search box and then click on the "cached" link. This will tell you what the search engine has in its index for your site.
The date it was cached will be displayed.

If you have made some changes, what affect as it had?

The search engine placement is only a small part of the jigsaw.

The good placings you have on the other engines, have you researched the keyphrases?

wjcampbe mentioned the phrasing, getting good phrases can help an awful lot and will get you better results than being fixated on one thing and desperately trying to achieve placing with that one phrase in one engine.

[bladders]

When you upload the site, how long does it normally take for the SE's to pick up the changes?

[altfocmed]

"We have a stats function that our developer runs" - ???

Not sure what this means but your web host should provide a basic stats log from which you can get an overview for the perfomance of your web site.

Stats and the interpretation of has as many holes as search engine optimisation and there is also the additional [or maybe not] problem of ambiguity - each of us will interpret stats in a different way.

Our company provides monthly web analytic reports to our clients and I often hold monthly marketing meetings with them to help identify "what it all means".

If you are going to become interested in your stats be sure of a few things first:

1) Hits - means nothing, let me repeat "hits means NOTHING" - that's right ignore them - the stat you really want is the visitor count [that's the number of customers walking through your door].
2) Search Engine Demographics / Referers - okay so it's nice to see lot's of clicks from Google, Yahoo etc. BUT in the end what you want is sales. Focus first on how users are "using" your site - landing pages / click paths / exit pages and most important "time spent on site" , these will help your work out the % of browsers against buyers. The google / yahoo stuff will help you see which keywords are working for you and which are not [stat: keywords by server]
3) Create a reporting tool in word and once a week fill it out with:

visitors =
top 5 landing page =
top 5 exit page =
time on site =
top 5 keyword =
total sales =

Then do some calculations and over time build up a trend, e.g.:

total sales / total visitors = ?%
exit page - is it the same pages in the top 5 ?
top 5 keywords - are they the same ?

After 6 months you should have a useful picture of how your web site is performing and then is the time for considering changes.

If you are running a PPC campaign then there are other stats which will be useful on a monthly basis [including conversion counter] and here you can split the keyword stats between PPC generated and Organic.

Time is too short and this box too small to go into all the ins and outs of stat reading but a google search on "web analytics" should point you in the direction of several sites for further advice.

The key thing to bear in mind is this; you are running a store [shop] NOT a website, with that in mind you need measurement, campaigns, and marketing. After all, in a real shop you wouldn't just sit in the back office and leave the shop to tick over ....... would you ?

[Dek]

myth

SE pick you up at different times, MSN more frequent than Google. Yahoo can be a few months unless you use overture PPC.

It is a myth to think that position one on google brings in thousands of pounds.
what term ? is it targetted or is it general? eg - buy loft ladder from browns or ladder. The first is more likely to buy where as ladder could have been someone looking a ladder in a pair of tights!!!

There are many valid points on this forum about promoting, look around at other postings regarding SEO and keywords as well as stats.

It is also worth noting that web promoting can be broken down into many areas of expertise, reading stats is an individual interpretation on many fronts but by reviewing them (in whatever form) you should look for increasing and decreasing trends against what changes you are making.

Every change or step forward does not always turn out that way and if you start chasing then you will end up damaging good pages and get in a complete mess.

Do some research on the net and look for a few pointers, dont take any one article, always confirm it somewhere else and make sure the information you are reading is current. Algorithms change!

As for the hits debate, please make sure you are talking visits as altfocmed says, hits are requests not actual visits.

Basically its like anything in life, the more effort you put in the better your results "should" be.

Affirm altfocmed statement "The key thing to bear in mind is this; you are running a store [shop] NOT a website, with that in mind you need measurement, campaigns, and marketing. After all, in a real shop you wouldn't just sit in the back office and leave the shop to tick over ....... would you ?"

[altfocmed]

Derek can't say I agree with this: "Yahoo can be a few months unless you use overture PPC" but I can add that a listing in Yahoo directory is more than worth the £ 199 they charge [Yahoo will deny any preference to directory listed websites but many SEM's have experimented [us included] and there is definitely favour there].

The only other point I'd make here is to make sure that your "404" is designated properly [ask your web host about this] so that when you do change your website [and in particular page names (url)], the old listings in the se's still have some value in that the user will "land" on a page that'll still be within your store.

But in answer to: "When you upload the site, how long does it normally take for the SE's to pick up the changes?" - why wait ? Set up a modest PPC campaign where your ad's target specific [landing] pages within your store

[Dek]

difference of opinion

As I understand it, either the directory or overture ppc feeds yahoo.