Site Hosting Robbers

[B_Online]

Can't blame the hosts for the failings in the website. True they could have been a bit more proactive and helpful

This is a contradiction in itself, if they had been more helpful, there would not have been a problem!

Ghome1971 paid £1300 and asked Netbenefits for help, she got no help from Netbenefits.

Netbene£its = whatbene£its

If Netbenefits carry on trading in this way, then I’m sure sooner or later they would end up on Watchdog with those other dishonest plumbers and traders who hide the truth to gain more money. Trading standards might be interested in this type of trading also.

[leehack]

This is a contradiction in itself, if they had been more helpful, there would not have been a problem!

If Netbenefits carry on trading in this way, then I’m sure sooner or later they would end up on Watchdog with those other dishonest plumbers and traders who hide the truth to gain more money. Trading standards might be interested in this type of trading also.

I think you fail to understand the basics on this case. They were paid to host a website, which unless i've totally misunderstood, they have done. I have not heard about the website having been down or not available. This is what they were paid for and this is what they did. They are RESPONSIBLE for the server, NOT consulting on the websites they host (unless illegal etc.)

Whether a company chooses to be helpful or not, is immaterial. This is something one looks at when joining them and can then decide whether to continue or not. Providing excellent customer service and being as helpful as possible is not a mandatory service that MUST be provided. YOU ARE PAYING for hosting space, not consultancy.

Handling of this by them could have been better, the website design could also have been much better. Failing to communicate and talk someone through the failings in their website is NOT 'mandatory', it is a 'nice to have' and something that differentiates GREAT companies from OK companies.

Remember the basic facts here:

Had G. been advised to reduce her images (although they weren't horrendously huge), do you think the hosters would have had a post in here saying how GREAT they had been - i think not!

And if all else fails, remember if the website had been designed correctly then none of this would have happened. This is the single and most important factor in all of this. The website failings are the cause of this and the buck therefore lies with the designer. Their customer service could have been better for sure, there are very few companies in the world, where we could not say the same.

To say they could be on 'Watchdog' soon is plain ridiculous.

So NetBenefits, you hosted a website which ran out of bandwidth quite quickly, what happened?

"We spoke to the client and advised upgrading to a larger bandwidth package"

Did the client agree?

"Yes, she paid over the phone by card"

So you didn't grab her handbag down a dark alley and put a club over her head?

"No, we explained the best package for the bandwidth she was using (given past history) and she agreed to upgrade."

OH i see, we were under the impression you robbed the customer?

"We spoke with our client and advised to upgrade the package, client agreed and we took the money"

Could your customer service have been any better?

"Possibly yes, we host 1000's of sites and it is not possible to always delve down deep into each and every problem. If we did, then the hosting costs would be far higher as staff don't come free"

OK thanks for your time, Watchdog will not be taking this any further.

[chris ashdown]

Jan

Put me down for the spell cheeeeeker

I would suggest the pages are measured and shown as "time to load in say 512, 1 meg and 2 meg broadband" rather than individual images, with a warning of the most likely items using the bandwidth

Phew what a lot of opinions

Geraldine have you tried contacting the MD of netbenifits and emailing this forum items and asking for a refund, you should receive one, but if not try telling them you will take it further to the magazines and papers if not solved to your satisfaction

[pinbrook]

Jan
I would suggest the pages are measured and shown as "time to load in say 512, 1 meg and 2 meg broadband"

56k modem also should be taken into consideration, we are fine inthe UK as ADSL at home is common, but it is not so commonelsewhere(except the US of course)

[Jan]

That is a bit beyond me chaps, I don't speak HTML. I can do image sizes though.

Regards,

[B_Online]

I think you fail to understand the basics on this case…

Nope, I’m fully aware of the basics: £1300 for a £100 job (for further assistance there is a calculator in Windows); + No helpful support (something which you seem to have noticed, but neglected to take into consideration)

Their customer service could have been better for sure

doh, You’ve said it again!

to help and offer support is the single and most important factor.

hey, I must be living on Waltons mountain!!

To say they could be on 'Watchdog' soon is plain ridiculous.

what I actually said was “If Netbenefits carry on trading in this way, then I’m sure sooner or later they would end up on Watchdog”
‘ridiculous’ or not, if this is an isolated case then I’m sure it won’t, but who knows it could be a mistake?

Ummm, I can see you have put all your brains into this one, but I find myself holding my ribs and I’m sorry but I do not agree with you, if you have watched ‘Watchdog’ you will see that they do not sell meat pie and chips nor do they sell lawnmower parts, and this might come as a surprise to you, but they actually investigate companies that over charge and BASICALLY Rip people off, whether that is because they swindle, lie, cheat or mislead, I have seen old people over charged £400+ for a £60 fitted door lock and plumbers who exaggerate or misinform customers about the size of the job, and guess what?, they over charge…from what I can see a job that should have cost £100 for hosting which for some reason jumps up to £1300 is well inside the prices watchdog show on their TV program…also, the plumbers and locksmiths I seen, they all finished the job, so should the customer have been happy since they paid there money at the time and the job was complete?

Watchdog brings these rip-off companies to the attention of potential customers so they are aware of what is going on.

Trading Standards will also look into unfair trading, which looks like this company could fit into that bracket I’m afraid, not quite sure why you have a bee in your bonnet. Could you please show me another company you know that would charge this amount for this type of hosting, so we can list them all in here so nobody else could make the same mistake!

I find myself laughing out loud at the thought of you foaming at the mouth when typing your next reply justifying how it’s ok for this company to overcharge this lady by approx £1200 as strongly as you do.

Put yourself in Ghome1971 shoes for a second, and would you REALLY put up with that price discrepancy, maybe you would NOW; now that you have set your stall out so strongly, but maybe not before! Would you put up with it if it was British Gas who over charge, well YOU might be ok with that, so longs as you got the Gas, and hey, that’s the main thing isn’t it? Everyone of us would walk back into a shop if we was short changed by a pound, and definitely if we was short changed by a £10, or should we all be happy that we have got what we went for?

Just because Netbene£its happen to be expensive doesn’t mean that is fair trading, the laws are there to protect people who are not aware they have been ripped off, that is why people pay the money at the time, customers don’t pay money knowing they are being ripped off! You just might be looking at this from an unsympathetic Business point of view?

[george]

To summarise..... Good customer service would prevent this happening, sadly individual attention seems to be a thing of the past...

[Ghome1971]

Netbenefits are dishonest

Thanks John

When I took out the original package with Netbenefits I explained I was a beginner. They did not warn be about bandwidth charges in advance.

The comparison to driving your car raised earlier is stupid because firstly it is common knowledge that car needs maintaining the more you drive it and also people can shop around for the service charge which will be incurred the more you drive a car. However, it is not common knowledge to new user of the internet about bandwidth and secondly I can't buy hosting from one provider and shop around for my bandwidth from another.

I think this is a WatchDog type matter because if there was a regulator of this industry I think they would insist customers are made aware of extra charges in advance.

In addition a regulator would be appalled by their service. I asked Netbenefits why I am using so much bandwidth and they did not bother to investigate. Once I got a huge water bill (£400 to 3 months). The water board came out to look and found a huge leak. They bothered to investigate. Netbenefits charge a premium rate BUT DO NOT OFFER A PREMIUM SERVICE.

Geraldine

[Jan]

Good customer service would prevent this happening

Is true.

sadly individual attention seems to be a thing of the past

Is wrong, If you choose the right host you can get a better, more personal service. As G. has seen since moving her hosting to Lyle. My host (Pinbrook) is the same.

Regards,

[leehack]

Nope, I’m fully aware of the basics: £1300 for a £100 job (for further assistance there is a calculator in Windows); + No helpful support (something which you seem to have noticed, but neglected to take into consideration)

£100 for the bandwidth she used is not a sensible figure. The Windows calculator is a silly jibe, lets keep it grown up please. She was charged for bandwidth she used. Try very hard to differentiate between the following:

If G. is using 100meg bandwidth and they tell her she needs to upgrade to 1000meg bandwidth - that is ripping her off. She was recommended to upgrade to a package that suited the bandwidth she was using - that is correct, not ripping off.

doh, You’ve said it again!

hey, I must be living on Waltons mountain!!

Not sure what you are after here, but it's getting more childish. Customer Service is something we all strive for each and every day. I would suggest trying to differentiate between bad customer service and ripping people off. There is a clear distinction.

What I actually said was “If Netbenefits carry on trading in this way, then I’m sure sooner or later they would end up on Watchdog” ‘ridiculous’ or not, if this is an isolated case then I’m sure it won’t, but who knows it could be a mistake?

Ummm, I can see you have put all your brains into this one, but I find myself holding my ribs and I’m sorry but I do not agree with you, if you have watched ‘Watchdog’ you will see that they do not sell meat pie and chips nor do they sell lawnmower parts, and this might come as a surprise to you, but they actually investigate companies that over charge and BASICALLY Rip people off, whether that is because they swindle, lie, cheat or mislead, I have seen old people over charged £400+ for a £60 fitted door lock and plumbers who exaggerate or misinform customers about the size of the job, and guess what?, they over charge…from what I can see a job that should have cost £100 for hosting which for some reason jumps up to £1300 is well inside the prices watchdog show on their TV program…also, the plumbers and locksmiths I seen, they all finished the job, so should the customer have been happy since they paid there money at the time and the job was complete?

Watchdog brings these rip-off companies to the attention of potential customers so they are aware of what is going on.

If you can honestly compare this situation to an old lady being ripped off or a dodgy plumber, then you are misunderstanding the fundamental facts in this case. G. did not pay for bandwidth she didn't use AND she was made aware of the costs before she said "YES". You really need to grasp this as this is really important in this case. At every stage through this transaction G. will have had the opportunity to investigate, work out the problem, ask others for help, find a company that was cheaper OR SAY "NO".. A company that charges more for something than another is not a "rip-off" company, it is merely a "more expensive" company.

Trading Standards will also look into unfair trading, which looks like this company could fit into that bracket I’m afraid, not quite sure why you have a bee in your bonnet. Could you please show me another company you know that would charge this amount for this type of hosting, so we can list them all in here so nobody else could make the same mistake!

I find myself laughing out loud at the thought of you foaming at the mouth when typing your next reply justifying how it’s ok for this company to overcharge this lady by approx £1200 as strongly as you do.

WOW you are getting real personal now. Lets take a different angle on this one, as you seem to be missing the point. You tell me a company that would only charge £100 for the bandwidth G. used. NOT the bandwidth she would have used, had she designed her website correct. Once again, a very CLEAR distinction between the two. You are talking about bandwidth she "should" have been using, i am concentrating on the bandwidth she "DID" use.

Put yourself in Ghome1971 shoes for a second, and would you REALLY put up with that price discrepancy, maybe you would NOW; now that you have set your stall out so strongly, but maybe not before! Would you put up with it if it was British Gas who over charge, well YOU might be ok with that, so longs as you got the Gas, and hey, that’s the main thing isn’t it? Everyone of us would walk back into a shop if we was short changed by a pound, and definitely if we was short changed by a £10, or should we all be happy that we have got what we went for?.

Its terrible i agree that it took £1300 before alarm bells sounded and something was done. From my own perspective, i would never spend such an amount then look for a reason why. The reason "why" would be found after the first contact stating that limits were about to be breached.

Just because Netbene£its happen to be expensive doesn’t mean that is fair trading, the laws are there to protect people who are not aware they have been ripped off, that is why people pay the money at the time, customers don’t pay money knowing they are being ripped off! You just might be looking at this from an unsympathetic Business point of view?

Ok i'm gonna be as blunt as is sensible on this point. I read this original post from G. and in my head and under my breath i was saying "poor cow, how could she be so naive and part with so much money without working out or asking others what was wrong". I may be wrong but i'm sure a few others were thinking the same. The fact that i think she was naive, daft or stupid or whatever you want to call it, does not detract from the fact that i feel sorry for her.

What i don't like to see is companies being slated with labels such as "Site Hosting Robbers" when the fundamental and basic cause of this laid with the designer. Comments such as "Site Hosting Robbers" are far more likely to end up in court, than someone paying more for a hosting service that she "DID" use.

Being expensive in business is not a crime. Especially when it is up front and you know what you will be paying. Paying £5000 deposit on a conservatory that never turns up is ripping off. Paying £15,000 for a conservatory that would only have cost you £8,000 had you investigated or looked into it properly, is not "ripping off", it's merely expensive.

This is heated debate for sure and i'm happy to discuss in a sensible and constructive manner, bearing in mind the "clear facts". Bringing "sentiment and heart felt feelings for G." into the equation will give you a biased and unfair point of view.

I signed up with fasthosts last week for a new website im building, i think the charges were something like £6 registration and £3.99 per month hosting. Thats somewhere around £54 per year. If i ever got an email stating bandwidth issues, i personally could not entertain ever paying an extra £1200 without finding out what the hell was going on.

Resources on the net are vast for finding out what to do and how to do it and there are always great communities such as this one. There really is no excuse for not knowing anything on web design and hosting if you are prepared to do your homework.

[leehack]

Thanks John

When I took out the original package with Netbenefits I explained I was a beginner. They did not warn be about bandwidth charges in advance.

I think this is a WatchDog type matter because if there was a regulator of this industry I think they would insist customers are made aware of extra charges in advance.

Geraldine

Geraldine, whether it comes across correctly or not, i genuinely feel for you on this, although i find it very hard to accept when you slate them and seem to accept none of the responsibility.

Do you put 100% blame in their corner or do you accept some yourself?

If it all happened again, what would you do different?

[RuralWeb]

We do not support:
a. Uploading website content
b. Checking the functionality of website content (even after server failure)
c. Web design
d. Use of HTML
e. Migration of existing website content to hosting space
f. ASP on Unix servers

If you look at Netbenefits terms and conditions then they clearly state that they give no support for website design. They have provided the service they state on their website.

Others do - it is always worth checking the small print.

[leehack]

Excellent post Malcolm, exactly what i read myself.
With those clear facts in mind, although feeling sorry for G., it is clear they have done nothing wrong.

[dave_finlayson]

Well this has certainly been an entertaining thread. So, as a Netbenefit customer I thought I would throw my 2p worth in.

So my answers to some of the questions brought up would be:-

Are Netbenefit expensive?

Sure, probably one of the most expensive I've seen around. However, in the 9 years we have been hosting with them we have had one technical issue, sorted very quickly. Perhaps you get what you pay for?

Is their bandwidth expensive?

Definately. No excuse here, they really are over the top. However, choosing the right package for you probably evens out their bandwidth pricing with other similiar hosts.

Are Netbenefit a good host?

With nothing to compare them to it's difficult for me to say but I would have no hesitation in recommending them to anyone. But, you have to weigh up how much your site is worth to you and pay accordingly. play.com will not be hosting for £200 a year! Similiarly, your local cake maker will not require hosting costing £2000 a year, it will not make a huge difference to them if their site is down for a few hours.

And finally, but perhaps most importantly, Should Actinic be recommending them as a host?

Difficult one, I would say yes but I/we as a company have a good knowledge of what we need/where we are going wrong etc. Others will not.

Admittedly perhaps a large percentage of Actinic's customers are novices but how would people feel if they recommended a far cheaper host, who took your cash for a years hosting, folded 2 months later and left you with no refund and no website bringing in money?

Gererally we have found their customer service pretty resonable. Perhaps not great but certainly solid. Perhaps they should have had a look at your site but, as they state in there T & C's, it's really not there job.

Netbenefit are a well established company, offering great solid hosting, and will more than likely be around for years to come. A company such as Actinic would not be using them unless they were good hosts surely!

I also feel Actinic do a great job recommending other companies through the forum and their website, so to lambast them for one persons bad experience seems unfair.

G should probably be due some money back, and I am sure, as mentioned in a previous post, a letter to their MD explaining the issues experienced would result in a fair conclusion.

In the end, Netbenefit probably were not the right host for you. Maybe Actinic should have a cheaper hosting recommendation, but they must ensure (for all their customers sake) they are reliable, honest, and have a good financial structure to ensure longevity. Perhaps not as easy a task as it may appear!

Dave

[B_Online]

If you read it yourself why dint you post it yourself since you gone to great length trying to make your point, and it still doesn’t mean that Netbenefits acted in a fair or reasonable way, and in fact in my opinion that would go to prove that they are in fact even more of a Rip-off company, so they charge top whack and distance themselves from any sort of help, I wonder if their customer service explained that when asked nope, just read the small print, all they want is ALL your money and do absolutely nothing for it! The fact they have this info is proof they don’t have there customers well being at heart and proves I was right; they are deliberately withholding that information, so their customer support consists of a sales rep? This none support is more of a cheap package deal, not a highly recommended company.

Actinic users should host with an Actinic friendly (usually smaller) more sincere company, since they will want your business and are more willing to help also they are nowhere near as expensive, we are not talking about ice-cream money here. I suspect it’s what trading standards would consider unfair and unreasonable trade. Paypal use to trade with no phone support that was until the courts forced them to. Although it would seem to help Netbenefits in a court of law to have this info in their terms (and people should at all times read the terms), but you must understand that not all what is written in terms & conditions are considered legal or inline with the government fair trading policy.

I would like to hear what Actinic has to say since this does actually involve them, if you are still recommending this company, could you explain why they are worthy and do you know exactly how much they would charge many of your own unsuspecting customers? If you are going to endorse someone I would expect you give your reasons why. This would benefit all your customers looking for a hosting company as you yourselves are considered trustworthy and have an obligation to your customers since you promote this company.

No matter which way you dress this up, it’s still a RIP-OFF.