Google Indexing Change ?

[RuralWeb]

We had a recent thread on "hidden" text using CSS which failed to convince me that there aren't ever legitimate reasons for this technique.

Its Google etc that you need to convince not me - I cannot see any reason for text on a website to be hidden. If its relevant to the visitor then it should be shown full stop.

This is what Google says:

• Make pages for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users or present different content to search engines than you display to users, which is commonly referred to as "cloaking."
• Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"
• Avoid hidden text or hidden links.

We can argue about this all day as knowone knows for sure - what we are talking about IMO falls within the list of Google do not dos. As you say there is no reason for those links to be hidden except for the fact that they are using an H1 tag inorder to try and boost thier relevance to Google as are the keywords placed at the top of the page. There is very little relevant text on the page, what there is is tucked away in areas that the visitor is not designed to see.

[jont]

There is very little relevant text on the page, what there is is tucked away in areas that the visitor is not designed to see.

Indeed. The whole point of a H1 header tag is to shout out "look at me - I am very important" .. to then hide this from the user and force them to click an inappropriately titled link is bad practice to say the least. The use of the "more / less" javascript is IMHO an attempt to appeal to Google with "look - it's not really hidden as the user can click for more info"

The same thing applies to using white on white text with a link to launch a separate stylesheet that simply declares a black font value. Would anyone be happy using this technique? Probably not.

[pinbrook]

<!-- More / Less Text -->
<div id="one" style="visibility:visible">
<div align="right"><span style="margin-right:25px"><a href="javascript:;" id="more" onClick="showLayer('show');">More&raquo;</a></span></div>

</div>

<div id="two" style="visibility:hidden">
<div align="right"><span style="margin-right:25px"><a href="javascript:;" id="less" onClick="showLayer('hide');">Less&laquo;</a></span></div>
</div>

<div id="cont" style="overflow:hidden">

<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Combination Boilers</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px"> Our <strong>combination boilers</strong> are available in many sizes to fit your space perfectly. Designed to give instant hot water with a high flow rate, our <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/boilers-flues.htm" style="font-size:12px">combination boilers</a> provide an efficient way to heat your water.</p>

<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Condensing Boilers</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">
Our <strong>condensing boilers</strong> provide a highly efficient way of heating your water by using a secondary heat exchanger. For our range of high efficiency <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/condensing.htm" style="font-size:12px">condensing boilers click here</a>.</p>
<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Commercial Catering Equipment</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">
Offering <strong>commercial catering equipment</strong> to the commercial sector. Click here for more <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/comm_boilers.html" style="font-size:12px">commercial catering equipment.</a></p>

<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Stelrad Radiators</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px"> We are suppliers of <strong>Stelrad radiators</strong>, the UK's leading radiator manufacturer. Click here for <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/radiators.htm" style="font-size:12px">Stelrad radiators.</a></p>
<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Central Heating Radiators</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">
We provide a comprehensive range of <strong>central heating radiators</strong>, available in many sizes and styles. For our full range of <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/radiatorsandvalves.htm" style="font-size:12px">central heating radiators</a> click here.</p>

<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Commercial Boilers</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">
Offering bespoke quality <strong>commercial boilers</strong>. To browse our online shop for <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/comm_boilers.html" style="font-size:12px">commercial boilers</a> click here</p>
<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Commercial Sanitary</h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">
Our <strong>commercial sanitary</strong> ware and disabled doc m packs are available for public buildings or healthcare installations. Please click to view our<a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/CommercialandDisabled.html" style="font-size:12px"> commercial sanitary systems</a></p>

<h1 style="font-size:12px; font-weight:bold; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px">Bathroom Showers </h1>
<p style="font-size:12px; margin-left:25px; margin-right:25px"> We supply all the very latest <strong>bathroom showers</strong> from leading brands. Click here to see our range of <a href="http://www.domain.co.uk/acatalog/showers.htm" style="font-size:12px">bathroom showers.</a> </p>
</div>
<!-- End of More / Less Script -->

this is the code that we are talking about - when I first viewed the site I could see this code, which after a few seconds disappeared,

If you look carefully is uses

<div id="one" style="visibility:visible"> followed by <div id="two" style="visibility:hidden">

the rest of it is just a list of links to other in site pages, and YES I have removed the domain name before pasting the code in.

[Mark H]

I think the text being visible then disappearing is simply the CSS kicking in. My point here is simply that this text doesn't need to be hidden as it is useful to the visitor, unlike most conventionally hidden text which is usually gibberish, and the fact that the latter has been deliberately hidden is clearly black hat.

The fact that the text in question is hidden until revealed by the visitor is IMO a little tidying tick used by the web designer trying to please a client - not one I would use as I have said because I think it's unnecessary. What I am most interested in, however, is whether Google has a problem with it since this has implications for the use of some CSS. Having said that I feel uncomfortable about reporting this site to Google as we have already ripped it to shreds - perhaps there should be a big note to the effect that web addresses should be disguised if there is any doubt as to the comments the thread/post might attract. This is Plumb Bob's business after all and he did nothing worse than aske the forum for help.

[RuralWeb]

This is Plumb Bob's business after all and he did nothing worse than aske the forum for help.

I totally agree and if I was him I would remove my post asp

[plumbbob]

!!

Christ I only asked!
I shall forward all of this to my SEO and seek a reply.
Thanks I think?

[pinbrook]

Thanks I think?

Hopefully yes, its thanks.

In a nutshell, a few of us feel that your SEO company is using methods that could get you banned.

as with all things you have to decide who's opinion you value.

However I would remove your URL from your first post as it only serves to draw attention to a matter you might prefer closed

[RuralWeb]

I shall forward all of this to my SEO and seek a reply

What did they say