Feefo independent feedback

[cbarling]

Actinic has selected to provide an independent customer feedback service from Feefo from v10 onwards. There is already an on-site feedback capability for Actinic stores provided by Codepath for all recent versions.

Actinic do believe that there are benefits to independent feedback which include a higher response rate to feedback requests, more credibility and SEO benefits.

However, there are also major benefits that arise from on-site feedback and this system leaves the merchant in control of the feedback. Actinic believe that the two solutions are complementary. We would not either wish or expect every merchant to opt for independent feedback. We have discussed this with Codepath and would expect them to continue offering their solution.

I hope that makes our position clear.

Chris

[Mike Hughes]

Chris,

I think FeeFo has some value for rating customer service. This is an important part of giving new customers confidence and an independent, follow-up based service makes a lot of sense.

They're making a big mistake by including product reviews though. The process is wrong, the strict procedures are wrong, it's really a mess and that doesn't give me confidence in them as a company. Neither, by the way does Bill Cawley's biog in the feefo blog.

Here's why the product review side a mess.

1. A follow up email in terms of customer service makes sense. Things like did it arrive quickly, how well was it packaged, were staff polite, etc can be captured quickly and effectively.

But this is exactly the wrong time to try to gather product reviews. The customer won't have had time to try them, decide what's good or bad, and will be asked to review all the products in the order, even if they just wanted to say something about one item in particular. Everything about this is wrong.

2. It also prevents non-customers from adding a product review (and even a customer who wants to add a product review at a later date).

This will lower the number of reviews that can be taken and is almost like saying to someone. "You haven't bought from us, so we don't care what you might want to say".

3. Given what I've said above, I'm not surprised to see 'product' reviews like this one on a website I looked at:

On Fishtec's website the first product I looked at, a boat bag, had a nice "Customers rate this product 100%" badge, and down below was the product review:

03-Aug-2009 > Product > my first order was'nt good i order boat net round frame 83twith telescopic handle net but the handle was not a telescopic one. i sent it back to you on fryday 31 july. i paid 13.50 euros to send it back 11.55 Britisch pound i hope this time you send me the wright one kind regards Mark

That has nothing to do with the product it's displayed for and yet under FeeFo guidelines this can not be edited by FeeFo or the merchant. It has to sit there for years to come.

If Feefo has the option to limit it to service reviews then I might consider it alongside a different product review service. As it is though it's trying to do stuff it wasn't designed to do and is doing it poorly. That's more than enough to put me off.

[Darren B]

1. A follow up email in terms of customer service makes sense. Things like did it arrive quickly, how well was it packaged, were staff polite, etc can be captured quickly and effectively.

But this is exactly the wrong time to try to gather product reviews. The customer won't have had time to try them, decide what's good or bad, and will be asked to review all the products in the order, even if they just wanted to say something about one item in particular. Everything about this is wrong.

2. It also prevents non-customers from adding a product review (and even a customer who wants to add a product review at a later date).

This will lower the number of reviews that can be taken and is almost like saying to someone. "You haven't bought from us, so we don't care what you might want to say".

3. Given what I've said above, I'm not surprised to see 'product' reviews like this one on a website I looked at:

On Fishtec's website the first product I looked at, a boat bag, had a nice "Customers rate this product 100%" badge, and down below was the product review:

That has nothing to do with the product it's displayed for and yet under FeeFo guidelines this can not be edited by FeeFo or the merchant. It has to sit there for years to come.

If Feefo has the option to limit it to service reviews then I might consider it alongside a different product review service. As it is though it's trying to do stuff it wasn't designed to do and is doing it poorly. That's more than enough to put me off.

I have to agree with you mike, i had concerns about not being able to edit this sort of feedback, if it was open to full editing then this would lead to sites only publishing good ones. However there needs to be some for of moderation.

But the stupid comments and feedback actually serv no purpose what so ever. I dont doubt a recent customer of mine would be writing a review very similar complaining that the postage label is £1 less that what i charged on the website, then moaning that the "mini" kites they brought were to small even though the sizes are shown

but using this system i cant edit or respond, i may be mistaken but i have not found anywhere that says i can.

At the end of the day i will have the option if i sign up for this or not but i am disappointed actinic has decided to choose a company rather than build a product review system into the product itself

[Darren B]

im also guessing this is the "Feature" that has shown a 14% increase in sales you mentioned

[cbarling]

As explained in my other thread on Feefo, there is a very simple method for merchants to respond and post against any feedback that they wish to. It's worth checking that out.

You can't have it both ways. Either feedback is independent and will have some silly comments, or it isn't and will have been sanitised but not trusted so much. I personally never trust feedback unless there are some negatives and that would include stupid comments.

As I said earlier, each merchant can choose which route to take. Over time, a lot of experience will build up in the Actinic community on this subject so no doubt some concensus will emerge, based on real experience. That's what has happened with Actinic Payments, which initially had a less than wholehearted welcome. Let's not write it off before it's even been allowed to put it's running shoes on

[Mike Hughes]

The 14% figure is an interesting one and was mentioned in Chris's introduction to Feefo.

I found it interesting that paypal also claimed that offering paypal was worth a 14% uplift, and McAfee secure also claim 14% (although to be clear they weren't at the conference) .

So all you need to do is use all three and maybe you could increase sales by 50%?

I do wonder what makes 14% such a magical number though.

Mike

[grantglendinnin]

14% is the increase in conversions, not visitors.

For simplicity, if you receive 1000 unique visitors per day, and only get ten sales, this gives you a conversion rate of 1% - so to increase by 14% would give you an extra 1.4 sales per day, thus you get 11.4 sales per day. Not 14% of the 1000, which is where most people are duped - as they believe they will get an extra 140 orders per day.

This is how a BT Customerstreet sales guy explained how all sales people get the sale - simply by a clever misunderstanding, with the customer never questioning the exact figures. This leaked out after I explained how UFindUs (now owned by BT) has been a complete scam in the past (not just for us, but many other business owners), whether things have changed since BT acquired the company, is another matter. He felt stupid for trying to sell their services, so I asked exactly how the "average" percentages are calculated. This was the answer and I assume is the same answer for all of these services which 'guarantee' an increase in sales.

This calls for Codepath to create a 'Feedback Trust' type logo which has preferred prominence on the product page, linked to the reviews. I wonder how that would increase sales conversions for Codepath Product Reviews users...

[cbarling]

I think that there's a vast difference in the impact on different stores. I would doubt if a trusted certificate and customer feedback would add the same together as they would independently. After all, they are both addressing trust issues.

Similarly, I would expect product-centric feedback to be hugely more important on John Lewis's site than service specific feedback. John Lewis is a trusted brand, so addressing the trust issue is less likely to impact conversion.

The thing that's interesting about online conversion is the number of different variables and how different combinations apply in varying circumstances. It's why measurement is so important.

Chris

[leehack]

Good explanation, the way i like to look at these stats is in real figures and always work on what 100% improvement would achieve and then work backwards. So in the below example, 100% increase in conversion would actually be 10 sales more. 14% sounds way more impressive than an extra 1.4 sales a day in real terms IMO, what would you be most likely to buy having heard, 14% or 1.4 sales a day?

[leehack]

You can't have it both ways. Either feedback is independent and will have some silly comments, or it isn't and will have been sanitised but not trusted so much. I personally never trust feedback unless there are some negatives and that would include stupid comments.

I agree with this, when i read a review i look for the top 2 or 3 and also read the worst 4 or 5. Often when something is so negative, i pass it off as a twit writing it. I also struggle to take someone's word if they have 10 spelling and grammar mistakes in one sentence.

A crap review is often one sentence of dribble, it also pays to seek out the longer ones IMO as they tend to be more constructed and helpful. If you don't have any crap on show though, then credibility is low IMO, although i'm not against a mild edit if for example the points were good, but the language was a bit foul or alike.

I also find an average rating very useful, when marked out of 5, you can almost know what you are about to read, just by the score. 3.8/5 or more and it's ok with me as my first thought.

[Darren B]

As explained in my other thread on Feefo, there is a very simple method for merchants to respond and post against any feedback that they wish to. It's worth checking that out.

you did although we have two threads and did not see the point in fragmenting / diluting the discussion

Can feedback be changed? Feedback can only be changed by Feefo and requests for change will go thorugh Actinic. Feedback will be changed that is illegal or defamatory (in a legal sense), where someone is identified by name, where obscenity is used or the feedback states things that are untrue. The smallest possible change will be made and it will be marked as "edited by Feefo". Changes will be made in less than 24 hours, typically 4 hours.

OK first concern

requests for change are through actinic? as in actinic the company or actinic the software if its the company then thats the second point of concern

So second point of concern

if theres a post / review made on a friday night and its obscene when will it be reveiwed / changed. I note you say normally 4 hours but as far as im aware actinic do not work weekends.

as you said it will take time for people to look at and settle down, i guess this also means actinic have no intentions of actually intergrating their own product review system?

[jont]

So all you need to do is use all three and maybe you could increase sales by 50%?

Mr Older - you should be working in central government thinking you simply add the 3 figures together. Thankfully I know it was tongue in cheek and you have a real job

[pinbrook]

I have to admit i'd rather see a built in system of feedback, but at least we now have a choice.

I shall be watching sites with feefo and codepath for a good few months before taking a leap, although i suspect some sites will be better with feefo and others with codepath. Still we are talking at least 6 months before feefo is available anyway.

it would be nice to see it backward compatible with 9 and 8 though. after all it is a 3rd party plug in

To me the most useful things when reading reviews, i've never yet come across a review that totally slates a site/product is when people say - didn't realise abc wasn't a feature. If loads of peeps say the remote isn't intuitive i may move on.

What info do others take from reviews?

[Mike Hughes]

simply add the 3 figures together.

Add together? No, sir. I was multiplying them.

1.14 x 1.14 x 1.14 = 1.48

(so to avoid confusion and keep Grant happy a 5% conversion rate would increase to 5 x 1.48 = 7.5%)

The level of cross correlation between the various numbers is an interesting topic though. Paypal is clearly a separate issue, but Service ratings are highly related to Security / Verification issues. Just addressing it from the social proof perspective rather than independent verification. This is probably not the best thread for a detailed discussion. I might start a new thread for this.

Mike

[Mike Hughes]

What info do others take from reviews?

I think it's important to separate out Product Reviews and Service reviews (like ebay ratings). They're both to do with Social Proof but one is to address concerns about the product, the other concerns about buying from that website.

Product reviews are really the key thing for me. I find them useful to confirm whether the product I'm looking at is going to be a diamond or a lemon. Specific comments are useful, Amazons latest scam where they give reviewers things free in order to get a few nice reviews is just the stinkiest business practice I've seen in a long time (excuse the mixed metaphors).

To be honest, service reviews don't add much value to me. They might be important on ebay, where it's an auction, the DSRs don't apply, and there are plenty of scammers about. But when you buy from a company online, particularly now everyone's using a PSP, you are protected by the card companies and the DSRs so the potential loss and element of risk is tiny.

Mike