v10 - More about 'real time stock control'

[george]

*looks around for the October update*

[Mike Hughes]

*looks around for the October update*

Think of it as a distributed release. News from the conference plus several updates on V10 features such as checkout, Feefo, RT Stock, Performance, etc.

Besides, I know we've got Bruce running around trying to specify how all this stuff is going to work properly so would rather not distract him at the moment.

Mike

[Darren B]

Besides, I know we've got Bruce running around trying to specify how all this stuff is going to work properly so would rather not distract him at the moment.

Mike

I think he has fell in to a big hole, all these questions have probably sent poor old bruce over the edge

[george]

The useful feedback from forum people on this issue is very poor. Its like no-one gives a fk anymore yet its one of the potentially best Actinic additions for years.

[markburley]

The useful feedback from forum people on this issue is very poor.

We were waiting for a reply from Actinic regarding the issues raised and are far from apathetic. As far as real time stock control is concerned we believe that it is, for us, the most significant development within the Actinic system.

We sell over 4,000 products, all of which are stock controlled. Many of the items are limited editions or limited runs and we are often unable to obtain further supplies. It is paramount that our shop, ecommerce system and mail/telephone orders have accurate stock information.

Actinic Business along with EPOS and Mole End’s stock control module currently achieve this for us. Although there are drawbacks, it is rare that the stock side of things cause us an issue. I am aware that this is not “real time” and that stock is only updated a few minutes after the online or offline order is completed, it also takes over Actinic during the uploads which can be irritating.

We would like to be involved with the discussions, even have the chance to explain what we do currently. We are also concerned about PSP Pending orders and how these will work, also how the EPOS will communicate and also the many MOTO orders we take.

At the very least we hope to make what we currently have much better and to actually achieve Real Time stock updates. We currently update text on the site to show out of stock items, discontinued, display customer service numbers for out of stock items which can be back ordered, etc. Hopefully this will also be possible with the new development.

I have always found Actinic very helpful and interested when I have discussed development with them, I am sure that this will continue to be the case.

Actinic – I await you reply to the issues raised.

Mark

[brucet]

Hi, sorry if you hear a bit of an echo but it's really very deep down this hole...
;-)

We're still looking into the PSP Pending issue, it's not as simple as it sounds because ATM the order and the payment data are captured separately on the web site and AFAICT the comparison between the two is done on the desktop. So an extra chunk of programming would need to be moved from the desktop to the server. Plus there are complications like the fact that not all PSPs use the same callback method. I don't fully understand the technical details but suffice to say it's harder than it first looks.

We will try to resolve it, but v10 is already a bit behind schedule. I'm sure you can understand that in the current climate, there are commercial pressures on us to get new releases out in a timely fashion - they are part of our life blood as a company. At the same time, the last thing we want just now is to take risks with quality, and the only other variable we can control is the scope of the release and how much we put in it.

Don't take that as a 'no', just that at this stage I would rather under-promise than raise expectations we can't fulfill.

Btw one possible solution might be the one the airlines use, ie deliberate over-ordering. If you know that 8% of your orders are generally PSP failures, then maybe you could compensate by allowing stock levels to fall to -8%. There will be the occasional error, but those will happen anyway TBH. I have never yet heard of a stock control system that's always 100% accurate.

Mark, re. EPOS and MOTO. Communication between EPOS and the desktop will work the same as it does now, there will be a new release of EPOS Link that is compatible with the new stock control. Stock due to offline orders - including EPOS orders - will be counted down on the desktop and can be synced to the web site automatically in the background.

We have given a lot of attention to the automatic synchronisation, it will be fast and able to run very frequently; the actual speed will obviously be affected a bit by the size and configuration of the site, the volume of orders, and the hardware. I will try to get some actual performance figures once we have it working well, and post them here.

Multi-user systems will be supplied with an additional module that can be dedicated to the auto-sync for maximum performance; although if that module is used, it will require its own separate PC.

[TraceyHand]

Btw one possible solution might be the one the airlines use, ie deliberate over-ordering. If you know that 8% of your orders are generally PSP failures, then maybe you could compensate by allowing stock levels to fall to -8%. There will be the occasional error, but those will happen anyway TBH. I have never yet heard of a stock control system that's always 100% accurate.

Please tell me I didn't just read that!
Actinic is already below par on the 'stock control' front. This 'feature' was supposed to improve it.
For businesses who hold low stock levels across the board (especially 1 offs) this would be NO improvement on what there is now.
In fact, it could be worse because, if stock levels are crucial to you NOW, you're likely using some form of add-on to download/update to maintain stock levels as best you can.

If you go and add this as a half-baked feature into V10, this could very likely end up working worse than currently!

IMO, it should have been fully researched before announcing that it was coming. Personally, I'd rather not see it at all than see it done badly

(and don't come back with a 'this is why we don't announce features before they are written' response because it WASN'T announced on the quiet or as an aside. It was announced with bells and whistles!)

I'm trying not to get all emotive about it but, having had Actinic's (lack of) stock control VERY close to my heart for nearly 9 years, it's something I'm VERY passionate about seeing done RIGHT!

end rant

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

Btw one possible solution might be the one the airlines use, ie deliberate over-ordering. If you know that 8% of your orders are generally PSP failures, then maybe you could compensate by allowing stock levels to fall to -8%. There will be the occasional error, but those will happen anyway TBH. I have never yet heard of a stock control system that's always 100% accurate.

Is it April 1st already, that suggestion would be far worse than the existing system for most.

If you really really really can't get a system working of real-time stock control that only allocates stock when payment is received please at the minimum give us an option of not allocating stock to PSP pending orders so we can atleast use the auto sync feature to keep stock levels almost real-time while the PC is switched on.

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

You will be able to sell ahead by setting the 'Suspend orders if below' value for a product to a negative number, but in this case the catalogue will take that number into account when declaring a stock level. So if you have none in stock but set 'Suspend orders if below' to -10, a stock level of 10 will show on the site.

Bringing up this point made earlier in the thread, would it be possible to get it to show the true stock level if you allow back ordering rather than a count down to the suspend level even if this requires us to tinker with the layouts.

I would prefer to see the real stock level until zero is reached and then the add to cart button to change to a back order button once stock had dropped to zero (although I am sure the button change is achievable currently with some mods to the layouts)

[Rich Brady]

there are commercial pressures on us to get new releases out in a timely fashion

DO NOT release V10 until it's as close to perfect as you can get. I understand that there is commercial pressure, but there are many established and vocal users that, from reading their posts and chatting to them off forum, will walk if V10 doesn't meet expectations.

You need as many people as you can to scream from the roof tops "F**k Actinic V10 is great, buy it now"

[george]

maybe you could compensate by allowing stock levels to fall to -8%. There will be the occasional error, but those will happen anyway TBH. I have never yet heard of a stock control system that's always 100% accurate.

Are you serious? (edited to remove swearyish word)


Order completed = stock reduced.


Nothing less than that will do I'm afraid.

[TraceyHand]

Are you f**king serious?

*snort*

that was my uncensored version

[rmorrow]

....and I was concerned for the future of ActiveStock.....

[Mike Hughes]

I've already made clear that RTSC that doesn't take into account whether an order has been paid for or not is a worse solution than not doing it at all. OK, I don't have to use it, and I won't if this is how it works, but delivering new 'features' that aren't usable in real life is a waste of everybodies time and a wasted opportunity.

You're also going to get slaughtered by customers when they discover the 'new feature' you're promoting doesn't work. We've already been through this on previous releases and to do it again is commercial suicide.

Actinic has been suffering for a long time from the attitude of 'get it out there and we'll fix it later'. The trouble is that you never seem to have time to fix the problems because you're always desperate to get the next thing in and the problems just build up and up.

This is just plain wrong.

Mike

[brucet]

I've said the plan is to avoid the necessity for that workaround. And I'm not saying it would be suitable for everybody. But given how widely it's used, I don't think you should dismiss it as an option for nobody, either. I'm sorry, but if you want me to listen, knee-jerk reactions won't help your cause...