Google Panda update

[robinantill]

What are the views on having SPP where the products are essentially all the same with the exception of the size of the product. As I understand it the Google Panda update can sees this as duplicate content because the pages are more or less the same

The original Panda update was released around a year ago and caused some websites to lose 90% of their search traffic in Google. The update tried to increase the prevalence of unique, quality content being delivered for search queries, penalising sites which had a high percentage of duplicate content or content that was perceived to be low quality.

With over 50 different sizes of products, each with its own page, this has created loads of pages more or less the same. With over 500 products it more or less impossible to change each page and make it wildly different. There are only so many ways to describe a product.

Should I get Google to de-list most of the pages in each range of products and concentrate on making one super page for each product or just put up with it. My main keywords page has fallen from the 1st page down to page 4 at the moment.

Each day I am writing a blog of 400 - 600 words which is in connection with my products. I currently have over 150 blogs over the last year. This is because, I believe, Google wants fresh content on a regular basis.

[leehack]

Sounds (on the surface) that you've completely forgotten who the site is built to service. How can you have one product in 50 sizes all on their own page, that doesn't sound very user friendly to me. One master page with choices or at the very least group the sizes into sensible sub groups to help a user.

Not surprised you rank so low tbh, page 4 is about as good as page 40, so you have nothing to lose, if you build it for a user, I'm pretty sure Google will prefer it too.

SPP for me is a bit misleading, I like to think of a single add to cart per page instead, think its more logical. I'm a big fan of a fragment at the top of a page explaining the product and options and then a grid of size choices underneath in a compact table layout with a single add to cart button, when you have many sizes or derivatives of an identical product. Just done something along the lines for a door furniture company, with numerous finishes and types of handle available.

Why do you blog daily when you have such poor SEO results, it doesn't seem to be working from what you say, what's the point soldiering on along that path? Fine line between 'fresh content' and 'pointless daily crap' to try and service a search engine. I'd suggest that time would be better spent on social networking.

[robinantill]

Hi Lee, Thanks for your input.

I used to have a single page for each product before I implemented Actinic and was number 1 was 'garden sheds' for 4 years. Since then my ratings have slipped. After reading reports that it was best to have a product page for each product I created a page for each product with each size being a different model. I also thought that each product needed to be separate when it was uploaded onto Google Shop. Clearly I misunderstood this.

I will implement a page for each type of shed i.e all 4ft apex sheds, all 5ft apex sheds etc. This will reduced the number of pages for some of the products from 50 down to 7. It's not really practical to put all 50 sizes on one page as the box where the customer places the order is about about 10cm and you would have 500cm of buying boxes as well as the product details, description and products specification. There are 8 components for each shed, each with their attributes (with most of them being different) so would be a major problem trying to incorporate them into one box.

Thanks again. Robin

[leehack]

There's no blanket rule on what to do for every business. For me if you have a 7x5 shed and it is identical to a 6x4 shed apart from size, it is no different to listing a jumper with small, medium and large options, UNLESS you can come up with a compelling argument that people search by shed size and even then, it could be countered by the fact that you should have a 6x4 shed section with all 6x4 sheds in it and market that page accordingly.

Don't make global sweeping changes, pick 4 comparable sections and try something different on each and learn what works best, both on results and sales. If you keep making wholesale changes across the board at opposite ends of the scale, you will sometimes miss all the good bits in between those extremes. Longevity and stability are important factors, I have pages in pos 1 + 2 now, that were 7th + 8th 4 years ago, I've not touched them at all.

[leehack]

If your site is a 3 column site and you struggle for space, consider removing the right sidebar and getting more space to sell and list your products. That should give you ample space to sell anything no matter what the options are. You could even make the options as global choices instead of against each shed, kind of a 'choose your shed size' and 'choose your options' type setup. That sort of thing is when you really start to get into how a user needs help on a site. Your site is maybe even begging for a wizard to help them decide.

1. Shed size
2. Type/location of door
3. Window included
4. Roof material
5. Etc.

Once answered, then show them their options.

[Chunkford]

I reckon your a prime candidate for Norman's NorMatrix with a few tweaks
or
Just use a drop box or a list of sizes to choose from on one page.

Your customers will thank you for it and you will thank your self for freeing up so much of your time.
Must be a nightmare maintaining it?

[robinantill]

Hi Lee and Chunkford,

That good advice and I can understand that it also can be good for customers.

My problem is that I deal with 5 different shed companies. Some have shiplap cladding 12mm thick, some have shiplap cladding 15mm thick, some have other claddings. Some offer free assembly, some offer chargeable assembly, some offer free delivery nation wide, some offer delivery in some regions and some charge a different rate for each county.

All the heights of the sheds vary from one company to another. Some include opening windows, some offer timber bearers etc.

All those variables make it nearly impossible to have a list of all 6x4's all 7x5's etc as the description required for each set of 6x4's etc will be very confusing. I.e. If you are ordering a Diamond shed the walls will be 5ft 10in high, if the order a Humber shed the walls will be 5ft 6in high etc.

On average there are about 6 optional boxes for the customer to choose from.

On reflection I think my best option is to reduce the number of pages downs from each size (50 sizes) down to 7 which reflect the widths of the building. This will be for each manufacturer and for each of their models. This is something which people do search for as they might only have a set space for the shed to go into. This will mean that a customer can select a manufacturer from the main description and from there go to the width building they are looking for and then select the size and then order. As far as the 50 pages were concerned it was not only the size which was different. The type of floor was different, the height of the building was different and some of the options were different and the models available were different.

Thanks again.
Robin

[leehack]

Robin i have 3 words for you, simplify, simplify and simplify. There are of course people who like to have custom sheds or know the thickness of the floor or the shiplap, i'm in fact one of them as woodwork is my hobby, but you have to accept that a large proportion want a shed to dump a lawn mower in, store the kids bikes and hang a naked calendar in.

If you struggle to set these up, stands a great chance people struggle to buy them also, sometimes less is more on the info or at the very least, split them into quality groups, budget, standard and deluxe or something like that.

Joo Bloggs often has no idea whether 12 or 15mm is better or in fact how thick that really is, don't blind people with science and options, ask them what they want, show them their options and on each of the options explain these important measures ie don't ask if someone wants a 12 or 15mm shed, offer them a standard or deluxe option (with an article explaining the difference for those interested) and tell them what is on each choice.

My own experience of buying a shed taught me that size, door location and size and window location and size were the key parts, next was the construction ie roof type, floor thickness, bearers, shiplap or feather edged etc. The vast majority of those can come under quality choices, once the initial choice of shed has been made.

I hope I am wrong, your site just sounds very confusing on the surface to me, choice is great for sure, too much choice = confusion which equals I will do it another day.

[RoofingWarehous]

Check out this store.
http://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk

SPP? I dont think so, the product pages here have been duplicated so many times, and these guys are number 1 for pretty much every keyword relating to roofing supplies.

[robinantill]

I totally agreed that I need to simplify my pages. However, I came into the shed business back in 1979 when I could not buy a shed to suit what I wanted so after building my own shed to suit me I decided to start my own shed company. My policy then, and now, is to offer customers exactly what they want. Whatever size they want with the doors and windows where they want. I am not trying to compete with the B&Q's of the world selling cheap rubbishy sheds as I know they are no good. I don't want customers phoning me up and complaining about split boards or knots have dropped out.

What I want to do with my web site is hard to get across easily and the only way to offer, which is great choice, and that is to have lots of options. This does make the site more complicated for some customers (they have told me) but without these options the customer can't always see my USP. The Joe Bloggs of the world just wants a basic shed which will last a few years, our market is for people who understand that it pays to pay a little more and to get the shed to suit them. Price wise we can not compete with B&Q nor we don't want to. We want to offer the best shed at the best value to suit each customer.

My reducing the number of pages down and with links straight from each product to similar sheds will be a good starting point, both for the customer and hopefully, as a side issue with the search engines.

I do like your idea about asking what size, what cladding, where you want the doors etc and then show a list of suitable models but I can't see that as being very easy to set up in Actinic.

Thanks again for your advice and guidance as it is really appreciated.

[leehack]

It's very easy to setup in actinic, think of sections and subsections as the questions and then when they get to the final choice (the last subsection), have the respective sheds duplicated into the that section, they then get to see the products that suit.

I know of one customer who also sold complicated products with lots of choices and he has told me this feature has increased sales by more than 25%. In fact as I mentioned to him at the time when I set it up, if this takes off as I think it will, your competitors will mimic it. True enough, that's exactly what happened last week, almost identical on a rival site.

Having people copy you is great though, they are always behind and chasing then, right where you want them.

A site that makes it complicated for people that like complicated and simple for people that like simple, has to be a winner in my eyes. Give it a try, nowt to lose, lots to possibly gain.

I think sometimes you can get carried away with Google position and results, never forget to focus on the customers you already get. Get something in place to maximise their conversion and the rest will naturally follow. I've seen customers with 500 visits a day, with a conversion rate of 1% (5 sales a day) chase more visits for month after month, what they should have been doing is working on converting at 3% and thus tripling business over night.

Traffic is often overated, usability is seriously underated, don't fall into that trap.

[chris ashdown]

Is this not what attributes and componants is for?

Image shows exploded view of Front, back, Left end Right End each named

Size
2Mtr x 2 Mtr £x.xx
2 mtr x 3Mtr £x.xx
2 x 4 Mtr £x.xx
2 x 2mtr £x.xx

Window using Componants

Front left hand side
Front centre
Front right hand side
End A
End B
Back left hand side
and so on

Door

Left front
Centre Front
Right front

With box for any special instructions

Price shed basic price plus componants

All done with one product

[chris ashdown]

Sorry Lee just noticed your post no5

opp's

[robinantill]

Thanks for that advice. I will certainly look in how I could incorporate this onto my site. My only concern is the setting up off all the duplicates as there will be the need to have multiple duplicates in each of the sections and then subsections etc.

It's possible that - if you have 6 different criteria - than a product could appear in 5 of then and would need 5 duplicates.

I have 7 different suppliers of sheds.
I have about 20 different layouts of sheds
I have about 100 different sizes of sheds
I have 6 different types of cladding.
The delivery areas vary with each suppliers

So there would be an amazing amount of combinations. As I have over 1000 products it will take a great deal of time to set this up but I can understand this will make it a lot easier for my customers to find what they want. I will need to persevere with this.

Thanks again.

[leehack]

It sounds a lot to set it up, in reality once the ways to shop are setup, it's just a case of copying a product and doing multiple pastes into correct sections and just repeating that, could easily do a good few 100 in a day. Should take 3 days to setup max.