How we design with actinic

[pinbrook]

calibresupplies is ok, but there's no real design to the site

[compendia]

I love the elements design it a great example of how a site can draw you in. Its also a good example of how to realease a site - with a few really well done pages and a 'coming soon..' notice.

I also like calibre supplies, though it might be a little more difficult to use when you don't know what you're looking for.

The sites under discussion throw up some useful distinctions. There are enormous differences between how you sell something that is essentially nice to look at and how you sell something thats quite boring.

For instance, I've just bought a powered hub. Whilst a design can tie a site together and give me visual clues about how to use it a picture of a powered hub is not as important as knowing its features and being able to ask what on earth it does. Whereas with a side lamp its pretty obvious what it does, it's the picture that can sell it to me.

I would have thought that the experience in designing for B2C to and B2B sites is really different, though I'm not sure what the exact differences would be.

The different kinds of people who make the web always fascinate me. I'm interested in design from a sales point of view, other people are interested from an aesthetic point of view and then someone says (presumably sucking their teeth),

a lot of very nasty code in there

Meanwhile about 50% of my customers just use the web to find our phone number so they can ring us up!

[ChrisL]

In my browser their white background adopts the light green that is my default document background. See attached .jpeg to see what I mean.(White screens=migraine). They have, like a number of other sites, assumed that everyone uses a white document background. If they want viewers to see white, they need to ensure their CSS forces a white background.
In other respects (ie the structure/layout) I am also impressed.

The point about a site's evolution through various editions of Actinic is well made. Way back (v3 I think) I started a site in a hurry, accepting a basic layout that I then tweaked in all sorts of (undocumented) ways. Now, at v7, with time available to concentrate on the task, I really need to start over: I have a good knowledge of HTML & CSS, applied to other design work, and a son fluent in PHP & JAVA as well as competing on CSS etc., but need to decide how to completely revamp the ecommerce site. I am well aware of the need to separate structure and presentation: the goal of all good web design these days.
The key concern is that, if I apply a new, clean, CSS based actinic layout to the existing site, how much 'damage' will be done? Should I re-design on a separate machine and then somehow import just the data? This would allow the roll-out of a fully working fresh design.
Has anyone else worked through this scenario?

[jont]

Good point about the background colour.

How much damage will be done by applying a new theme will depend on how much tweaking etc you have done to your existing site but the actual stored info on products shipping etc will remain the same (I have tried this in Developer when messing with test sites to no adverse effect) - obviously take a ACD snapshot and store outside the Actinic Folder and you will also get the chance to archive the old design in case it goes wrong.

How long it is going to take to get the new site rolled out needs to be considered - if you are half way through the new design on the main machine and need to make a change to the actual web then you are going to be stuck without reloading the original again. If you have the option to create on a stand alone that is probably preferable and then simply import/export the snapshot to the main machine when ready to roll out.

[wjcampbe]

I have a second copy of site1 stored in my sites folder (Catalog) and just rename the folders to work on my alternate (i.e. rename site1 to realsite, rename testsite to site1 - work on alternate. Need to do real work, rename site1 to testsite, rename realsite to site1 - do some real work)

[ChrisL]

Thanks for your input: time to stop procrastinating for fear of digging a BIG hole!

[buspassjohn]

Site Design

I have been reading this thread and checking out the example sites and IMHO the thing that seems to come through is that a lot of 'Designers' seem to ignore the basic fact that a retailers site is a shop.
The idea is to offer what the people want, when they want it, at a price they are willing to pay, not simply to look pretty.
To put up a site with the most beautiful design and graphics with only a few products is a complete ego trip and a waste of time and bandwidth.
Our site is probably at a stage somewhere below level 1 as the priority up till now has been to load product details and images for some of the 3-4000 items that we sell.
Doing this almost single handedly shows in our pretty crude design, but it works!
We are now having a design made to suit our products, so that the site will look and perform better and free me up to concentrate on the business.

With this in mind I would appreciate reviews of our existing site and suggestions of improvements that can be made, I realise there is a lot wrong, so don't pull the punches, knowledge is power.

[wjcampbe]

Not a lot of Actinic left in this one http://www.roses.co.uk/index.html , but when I went to look at the designers I was very disappointed - they have this thing with flash that took about five minutes to download - on 512k ADSL?

[jont]

The Roses site looks and operates well - I was a little confused at the star rating system though - I was looking for customer feedback and then assumed it was the sites own ratings... only to discover it was a hardiness rating! Classic example of not using the correct or obvious icons to convey a message.

[compendia]

To put up a site with the most beautiful design and graphics with only a few products is a complete ego trip and a waste of time and bandwidth.

Wow you obviosuly know a lot other people's industries.

We have always had a fairly small site and now with our new company toogoods games we have an even smaller one. It will always sell only a few products, at the moment there are two, by the end of the year there will be maybe six - eight. Is this a waste of time? Of course not, otherwise we wouldn't be dong it.

I think it's its important to strike a balance between design and content. You may input all your data only to find that you want to change the design which will involve moving some of your data to a different place. This will be a long job if you you have to move thousands of variables.

On the other hand it can be easy to get carried away with design because it seems like the fun bit.

Some sites need flawlerss design to sell their products, others would do ok with a list and a shopping cart.

I'm happy to be somewhere in the middle.

[compendia]

I am well aware of the need to separate structure and presentation: the goal of all good web design these days.

Ooh! exciting new aspect to topic.
Anybody care to elaborate, enhance.

[Luddite]

To put up a site with the most beautiful design and graphics with only a few products is a complete ego trip and a waste of time and bandwidth.

Are there any sites that you've seen on this forum that fall into this category John?

[pinbrook]

a lot of 'Designers' seem to ignore the basic fact that a retailers site is a shop.
The idea is to offer what the people want, when they want it, at a price they are willing to pay, not simply to look pretty.

I don't think you will find any of the designers who have contibuted to this thread think like that. Anyone who is experienced in ecommerce sites knows full well that navigation and quick to load pages are the number 1 priority.

Other issues such as credibility, design etc come a close 2nd, but a sucessful site is normally a meld of the above at the correct percentages.

Compedia - structure and navigation go hand in hand - you need both, I tend to place alot of my page elements in "standard" places. ie product navigation to the left, checkout and backet buttons to the top right. This way your site becomes more inuitive for the average visitor.

[buspassjohn]

How about the elements site, beautiful design, but product? the cost of this design has to be met from the sale of cheap wooden soap dishes and a few salt lamps.
Sorry but I can't see the point.
On the other hand I like your site, particularly the front search graphic, it does p me off that the disappeared Mr G who was supposed to design our site, apparently did this for you.
All he did for us was took some cash and wasted 3 months, don't change the front, just go to Birmingham next month, there are a lot of suppliers there that would fit in with your range (cant really name them as we are competitors in some fields!).

[george]

Been thinking about this. Does the Perfect Pad 'site not entice you `in` to browse for new ideas,etc, like the rubbery basin?

Just a thought train it generates for me anyway. Which, really is what a webmaster is looking for.

Whereas possibly sites like my own are more `direct` in what I sell?

Wonder which approach would create most `buyers` though?

Just had another spin on this. Would certain customers prefer to buy from what they thought was a more `upmarket` looking website?