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Credit card capture with Paypal Pro - help!

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    #16
    Well, given how little I know about everything else let me at least contribute what I know about Paypal, having used it for years and years and gone 'through the levels'. Apologies to all who know this already. First, to review the 'classic' Paypal thing:

    The most basic level of Paypal allows you to send and receive funds between Paypal 'accounts' with no charges whatever to either side. This has been used on eBay for ever. You can only pay from an existing balance in your Paypal account.

    Paypal 'accounts' function very much like bank accounts except the only thing you can do with them is pay another Paypal account or transfer to a real bank account. Apart from receiving funds from another paypal account you can also add funds to your account directly from a credit or debit card subject to the usual clearance time. I believe that in the US they have a Paypal debit card which lets you use your Paypal funds in physical transactions.

    Transferring out to a nominated bank account (of which you can have any number) takes 4-5 business days (really boring) and is only free if the transfer amount is £50 or more.

    A regular seller moves up to the Business account; the downside of this level is you now pay commissions on your receipts of 2.9% (3.4% if your volume is less than £1,500 a month). The upside is (1) you can transfer funds into your paypal account instantaneously from a bank account so if you plan to spend with paypal you don't need to keep a balance in there just in case. You just make the payment and paypal uses up the available balance then tops the rest up from your nominated primary bank account.

    (2) People paying you for transactions on eBay etc do not need to have a paypal account. They can pay you directly from their credit/debit card. When going to pay, the paypal front screen 'splits' to allow login for existing paypal users (or create a new account) or go straight to pay if you don't have/don't want an account. (Confusingly, I think this capability has been extended to non-business accounts as well but in those cases the payment isn't instant - it has to 'clear' for the usual 4-5 days.)

    (3) You can maintain balances in as many currencies as people pay you in (of course you can set prices in 'your' currency and paypal converts in the usual way but if you prefer you can for example sell goods on eBay UK in GBP and the same goods on eBay US in USD).

    There are still no standing charges at this level.

    I may have some of this round the wrong way; we've been using Paypal for years and have been a Business seller for so long I can't remember all the differences. Anyway:

    The new thing is Website Payments Pro which has only been launched in the UK this year. This is exactly like a traditional payment service provider/gateway, with a transparent API interface such that buyers never see a paypal screen. It's no different to taking a service from Barclays or whatever. You still pay 2.9% on transactions and you now have a monthly fee to pay as well (which is about the same as all the other providers). Paypal doesn't offer a hardware terminal but instead gives you 'Virtual Terminal' as they call it - which is simply a screen where you can enter a card transaction manually and get authorisation.

    You can have this even if you have never and will never use or offer 'classic' Paypal to yoru customers.

    Unlike a bank's service, receipts are credited to the paypal account, not your bank account, and you have to transfer them out manually whenever you feel like, as above. In other respects it's exactly like the gateway we used to have with Barclays years ago.

    If you're not a Paypal user, then Website Payments Pro has to be compared to your favourite provider and may not be the best value for money - I don't know because I didn't shop around. If you are a paypal user anyway (and we get about £5,000 - £6,000 a month going through paypal) then it's tempting just for the single-point reporting of transactions.

    Because Website Payments Pro is a standard 'gateway' or whatever they're called, I have to assume you need SSL or similar because you are hosting the input screens. Like most gateways, it starts off in 'test' mode until you've tested your interface and been approved, then you switch it to 'live' mode. I really doubt if Paypal would be happy if I didn't have SSL of some sort, shared or otherwise.

    Some people I've talked to have been confused about Website Payments Pro because they think it's a Business paypal account - in fact it might be easier if Paypal didn't use the word 'paypal' at all! It's not the same thing. The yellow button that appears on checkout page 1 is not Website Payments Pro, it's 'classic' Paypal.

    I could have brought up my Actinic site just using Paypal as I use it on eBay - the button's right there. However, I know that there's a whiff of amateurish-ness about the Paypal name so this lets me take payment the 'posh' way too. Ironically, I happen to think classic Paypal is very safe and very secure but plenty of people disagree with me and the customer is always right...
    -
    Justin Hill (Half-to-three-quarters-baked Mac expert, laptop evangelist and vintage Hammond enthusiast)
    http://www.cka-net.com

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      #17
      I had to have 2 entries in the payment method DDB, credit card and PPP, Justin's doesn't seem to have this.
      Actually I do have two entries; it seemed a little odd to me when I set it up but basically one entry is the one that's visible - 'payment by credit card', and has the stuff in it for cards types and what's required in the way of start and end dates, and the other is the Website Payments Pro, which just has the merchant i.d. stuff in it. This doesn't appear as a choice to the buyer, it's just 'there'.

      Now that I realise not many other people are using this I'm coming to the conclusion that (1) yes, you do need SSL and (2) there's either a bug in Actinic's implementation regarding the passing of name/address details to the paypal record or a bug in paypal's recording of transactions but (3) it works. Note that paypal must have 'seen' the address details during the transaction because it did a postcode validation.
      -
      Justin Hill (Half-to-three-quarters-baked Mac expert, laptop evangelist and vintage Hammond enthusiast)
      http://www.cka-net.com

      Comment


        #18
        Over to you Bruce... a one stop total integration guide to PPP please
        Promise to have this for you guys on Tuesday...

        Kind regards,
        Bruce King
        SellerDeck

        Comment


          #19
          Hi, I have spotted Bruce's message and trying to answer some of the questions here. So lets see what is Paypal Pro all about...

          Actually Paypal Website Payments Pro is a bundle consisting Paypal Express Checkout and Paypal Direct Debit. If you are using Paypal Pro then you must make both of them available to your buyers accourding to Paypal rules.

          Paypal Direct Debit is very similar to the existing PSPs. It allows you to capture credit card payments from your buyers. The main difference is that Paypal doesn't provide an interface for card capture but it is done on the merchant site. I.e. the buyer enters his credit card details on the standard Actinic checkout page then Actinic scripts are sending the details to Paypal for processing. Although Actinic's Paypal Pro integration is working without SSL it is not recommended to use without it as the buyers will not enter their credit card details on a non SSL page.

          The other part of the bundle is Paypal Express Checkout. It allows the buyers owning Paypal account to check out quickly. Basically it replaces Actinic checkout and most of the buyer details are captured on Paypal's server. Actinic checkout is retained only for order confirmation and receit page. Obviously this bit doesn't require SSL on your side. But Paypal Direct Debit requires SSL on the merchant's server (or Actinic Shared SSL subscription) and as it is a bundle you need SSL.

          I hope it helps some way.
          Zoltan
          Actinic Software
          www.actinic.co.uk

          Comment


            #20
            Thanks Zoltan, that pretty well answers my questions.

            Its a shame that PP have to employ the heavy hand and make you offer "normal" PP even if you wanted only you use them in the background for CC processing. But thats business...

            So PPP can be quite expensive, as it requires £20pm, and unfavourable %, along with purchasing SSL. But for some people it is better to have this than nothing.

            For the record, for anyone looking at this in the future, to the best of my knowledge if you do not have a merchant account - you have 3 choices of PSP - Worldpay, Paypal, Nochex.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by pinbrook
              For the record, for anyone looking at this in the future, to the best of my knowledge if you do not have a merchant account - you have 3 choices of PSP - Worldpay, Paypal, Nochex.
              Plus of course with a lot of shopping cart software, Google Checkout, sadly not with Actinic.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by buspassjohn
                Plus of course with a lot of shopping cart software, Google Checkout, sadly not with Actinic.
                Actually Google Checkout is pretty much the same as Paypal Pro from technical POV.
                Zoltan
                Actinic Software
                www.actinic.co.uk

                Comment


                  #23
                  Actually Google Checkout is pretty much the same as Paypal Pro from technical POV
                  It may be but you dont need SSL to get it working which IMO makes PPP pretty useless

                  Comment


                    #24
                    need SSL to get it working which IMO makes PPP pretty useless
                    Its an extra cost, which racks up the cost of using PPP. Although it would limit your choice of host as not all hosts issue SSL certs.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Although it would limit your choice of host as not all hosts issue SSL certs.
                      How very true jo - as the majority of my websites are hosted with webfusion who do not have SSL then they can never use PPP - not that anyone has asked for it mind you

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by RuralWeb
                        How very true jo - as the majority of my websites are hosted with webfusion who do not have SSL then they can never use PPP - not that anyone has asked for it mind you
                        If they see this thread Mal, I doubt they ever will!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by RuralWeb
                          It may be but you dont need SSL to get it working which IMO makes PPP pretty useless
                          Actually I don't think it is true. Where did you get this information? I have checked google checkout spec very deeply a few months back and I clearly recall they require SSL.

                          <fx: looks up their specs>

                          Yep see the quote below.

                          In addition, to receive notifications from Google, you must complete the following steps:

                          Log in to your Merchant Center account and navigate to the Settings - Integration page. (This is the page that displays your merchant ID.) In the API callback URL field, specify the URL to which Google should send notifications.

                          Confirm that the callback URL is secured by SSL v3 or TLS using a valid certificate from a major Certifying Authority. The callback service should only accept messages that are authenticated by HTTP Basic Authentication, using your Merchant ID and Merchant Key as the username and password. HTTP Basic Authentication is described in the following section.
                          Zoltan
                          Actinic Software
                          www.actinic.co.uk

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Actually I don't think it is true. Where did you get this information
                            Ive just finished building a site using a competitors software and GC works fine with no ssl.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by RuralWeb
                              Ive just finished building a site using a competitors software and GC works fine with no ssl.
                              I guess it was only level 1 integration of GC then. Level 1 integration is a simple http post of the cart to the GC server where all of the checkout is done. In this case new order notifications are sent by email and the orders can only be processed in Google Merchant Center. It is most likely not an option for majority of the merchant because
                              - the is no way for sophisticated (e.g. location based) tax/shipping
                              - no way for discounts
                              - no desktop side order processing
                              - etc

                              With Actinic it isn't really an option because most of the features should be disabled for Gc level 1.
                              Zoltan
                              Actinic Software
                              www.actinic.co.uk

                              Comment


                                #30
                                All good stuff and I'm enjoying reading it. Shall I start a new thread to return to my original question? Which was, why aren't the transaction details being transferred to the paypal record?
                                -
                                Justin Hill (Half-to-three-quarters-baked Mac expert, laptop evangelist and vintage Hammond enthusiast)
                                http://www.cka-net.com

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