Bens post

[Jan]

I think the forum is working rather well at the moment, questions posted, answers posted, jokes still around, I like it - it's good to have the other forum as well for people to sound off in if they feel like it.

Regards,

[pinbrook]

it's good to have the other forum as well for people to sound off in if they feel like it.

the other forum? obviously i've missed something here

[Chunkford]

Do you need to know a secret hand shake to get in?

[leehack]

The name of it has been blocked from being posted on this forum. Nothing secret about it, just can't be advertised on here.

[grantglendinnin]

The name of it has been blocked from being posted on this forum. Nothing secret about it, just can't be advertised on here.

If the name can't be mentioned here then surely it must be something along the lines of MAGNETS

[leehack]

LOL that makes it sound like a hush hush forum, which it isn't, it's basically just a forum not owned by a company, so chats and subjects can be more open and diverse. No restrictions apart from common sense of course. With Gabe as a mod, it's sure to be entertaining if nothing else.

[Stereo Steve]

Lee, the bit about not getting personal was typed with irony in mind. You are right, I felt the need to express some frustration and I was fully aware that the post I just typed was a targetted attack but I've bitten my tongue for too long. I detest this bizzare idea some people have that they own forums because they have been here a long time and can bully anyone who is misfortunate to have used the wrong search term to find the answer they need.

What I have found from this forum over the last 12 months is that most honest queries are met with derision from some quarters and I have held off from asking some things, even after searching for ages. This has meant that I have avoided the place and maybe not helped others where I may have been able to. I know for a fact that I am not the only one by a long shot.

Anyway, a frank exchange of views has occured over at the other place so that's that. I didn't express my views ever on here as I consider it a professional and helpful place to exchange info and learn about Actinic.

[gabrielcrowe]

The reason it cannot be posted is the same reason you don't put adwords on your shop.

We talk about some competitors.

So, i'd like some common sense, and some respect for Actinic towers, and respect their wishes, not to have any link here to it at all.

Thanks.

[leehack]

Steve, whatever your feelings are on how you think things should be done, one cast iron certainty is that you turning away and doing nothing will achieve nothing.

I don't understand that the frustration some regulars show with people who do not search is not okay, yet when you've finally had enough it's fine to personally attack both a person and his livelihood? I'm not against fighting fire with fire, I actually agree with it, but surely you can't shake your head in disgust and then go ahead doing the exact same thing (if not worse to some extent), that's inconsistency at it's best?

You've had some great advice off the forum, it can't have been all bad as you have over 1,000 posts on here. What this forum needs more than anything right now is people like yourself, with both experience of the software and the forum to now pay something back and stop hiding behind the 'we are scared to help out' excuse. That is just a bail out to not be bothered. As Winston said, it's not what the forum can do for you, it's what you can now do for your forum.

Welcome aboard the help train, let's see you give something back for 3 months and see if you can help change things eh, deal?

[pinbrook]

'we are scared to help out'

This worries me... and strikes me as bizarre. In all walks of life if you don't step up and do stuff wrong you dont learn. There's nowhere in life where you can expect to get things right all the time. If you post an incorrect reply, wouldnt you want to know what the correct answer was? Of course this all should be done in a polite and professional manner.

We all learn from our mistakes...

[Stereo Steve]

I accept your points Lee. I've just always thought that instead of saying 'do a search, it's been discussed many times', it would have been far better to say 'search for 'php' or whatever. This has caused so many rows on here as newbies have often been offended by the blunt response and said something innapropriate and it's damn frustrating to watch the flame war erupt.

It's like looking up a word in the dictionary, if you can't spell it, you don't know where to look. I have spent many a happy evening trawling threads for answers without success.

I'm not saying that the answer needs to be explained each time, just a more helpful pointer.

On your second proposal, if I were staying with Actinic, I would take you up on it but it looks like we are heading elsewhere for various reasons. The final descision has not been made yet so if we do stay with Actinic, I'll gladly stick around and offer what limited help I can. I'm no developer and I'm no code genius but I do run a very succesfull site in terms of sales.

[leehack]

We all learn from our mistakes...

This is very true Croccy, but the more you have been around and the more correct advice you have given, the easier it is to be shot down in public and not give a damn when you are actually wrong. I agree totally, being told when you are wrong is one of the greatest areas where you can learn, but it is also one of the hardest because nobody wants to be wrong, especially not in public.

Of late Rich would stand out to me as a good example of this, someone who got hooked on the forum, gave out some crap advice at the start, but was man enough to take it on the chin and learn a lot from it. Now he speaks much more sense and has bridged the gap into the main group of people who answer a large majority of questions for people who are stuck. He's no close friend of mine, we've spoke off forum a few times, but I like his attitude, he takes things on the chin, likes a laff and eager to learn and offering something back. He'd get my forumite of the last 12 months award if there was one to give by a country mile.

[leehack]

Steve, on the search the forum answer I totally understand your point, let me give you an honest answer on my feelings when I see someone who has clearly not searched, so you see a perspective from this angle.

Firstly, when you are a long standing member of a forum and post regularly, you have an inbuilt desire to help people (without question) and also have an inner confidence that on the whole when you provide some advice, it is generally respected, sage and it's resaonably difficult for you to be shot down.

Now when someone posts about the same subject for the 50th time, you find a tug of war type feeling inside. One half of you wants to help this person, but the other half says did you read the guidelines, did you look at the text next to the submit button? Now you don't want to go putting in more effort than they clearly have, but if they get no reply for numerous hours, you don't want to feel that they are hanging around waiting for some advice.

That for me is where I go halfway house, now it's true some of the questions are so common, that it is annoying they've been asked again, particularly as that thread now makes 31 responses in the search results instead of the 30 there was before for the next person. But i can honestly say at least 50-60% of the times I direct down that avenue, my thought is - "look here, i can't be bothered to search for the solution for you, especially if you cannot be bothered to yourself, but it has been asked before and you WILL find a full answer if you search the forum".

For me just having someone confirm that you are going down the right road and should persist is important when you are not sure. In an unvisited town I would take comfort in someone saying the petrol station is down there, just keep going etc.

That is how I see things, maybe blinkered maybe not. The thanks i've had on here are generally off people who I have seen get stuck right in. I love people who are eager to learn, don't BS and you can have a reasonably intelligent conversation with. My pet hate is people expecting things on a plate and expecting others to put in more effort than they will themselves. I also dislike people who give little back, but take a lot, i feel it's a little unfair and there would be nothing here if we all thought like them - alas that is an issue we could point in many different directions in life.

Hope that explains things from a different angle.

Norman posted a fantastic article on forum politics a few months ago, it was a really good read, if you could make all forumites read that before joining and posting, I think it would benefit all - we can all dream lol.

[Stereo Steve]

OK, I've had my little hissy fit and I don't really feel any better for it so I'll leave it there. It's more an itch I have needed to scratch. I learned a hell of a lot from this forum and I certainly appreciate the input of the learned.

I hope I have given some back, probably in the form of e-commerce / tax / accounting / back end solutions experience in general and maybe even a bit of SEO, a war I have fought (as you know, to your amusement) and largely won.

I admit I don't spent too much time on here so will never really understand the frustration of the constant questions. I feel that just about everyone here deals with it very well. Certainly everyone that is here at the moment.

[Rich Brady]

He'd get my forumite of the last 12 months award if there was one to give by a country mile.

That meas a great deal Lee thanks. Tis true I did ask some very noob questions early on and sometimes still do. I was new to html as well as Actinic when I first joined, I took some flak, but I never felt like I was been persecuted.

If I'm honest, I don't "know" anyone on this forum so if I'm ripped apart it's little or no consequence to me, but that has not happened. I've been corrected, put in my place (because I didn't know the history) but I enjoy coming on here. I learn something new every time and I help if I can, when I can.

I suppose I've been answering more posts recently because the usual suspects aren't here to do so, but i I'm honest, before I post I imagine what yourself, Mal, Duncan, Norman or Darren would say. Why, because it's usually the best course of action.