Bens post

[Donna]

Actinic should improve its support to the forum rather than producing watery guidelines on its ethos.
A well supported forum would produce the atmosphere you strive for Ben and not alienate some of its valuable contributors.

Come back Mal, come back Norman!!!

[Darren B]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<< thats me sorted

[animal dreams]

Chris, Ben,
I really hope Actinic will take on board how serious this issue is for most of the regular contributors on this forum and not just try to quieten things down, hoping it will get back to normal in a couple of weeks.

It's almost a couple of weeks now and the issue is still simmering because, as has been said already, some of actinic's greatest supporters have given many hundreds of hours of free support your customers (thanks guys & gals!). IMO they rightly feel narked when taken for a ride by freeloaders or frustrated by arrogant and ignorant newbies. I am not advocating abuse, but robust replies are justified on these occasions.

Having been an Actinic user for several years, I have come to rely on this invaluable knowledge resource which is this "handful" off dedicated people and cannot be replicated by a software database or a very helpful but busy and in some cases inexperienced 1st line support team. I dip in when I am actively developing and in return try to contribute a little from my albeit limited experience. These folk live and breathe the quirks of an evolving (but in some areas less than perfect) application and some of them make not only make their living from it but also bring significant business to Actinic. I'm sure you recognise that fact.

IMO all members need to sign up to a simple charter which sets reasonable expectations - including "take it on the chin" if you don't do your own research or you react negatively to expert advice. A user ranking system would help greatly here. I seem to recall a novices area on this forum when I first joined.

If this damaging episode is not repaired rapidly I can see many more people contacting your support team and getting "RTFM" or similar replies because they will be simply overwhelmed, which will be no benefit to any of us.

[plantshop]

Very well put. Indeed we are seeing an example today on another thread. A new user was recommended a designer by actinic and now after asking for advice on the forum finds that perhaps the designer does not know actinic all that well. Even I can see errors in the implementation of actinic!!!!!!!

So we have a situation where ben and chris are actively discouraging the actinic experts and promoting others who don't seem to know the software all that well. A very strange situation to be in IMO.

[Jan]

I don't really see what the big fuss is about, all that has been asked as far as I can see is that people try to be polite in their posts - a good example today was a new user who decided to be rude for no real reason to a regular contributor today and his posts were pulled right away, I would hope that if he continues to behave in that way he will be banned.

What was wrong with the original post - the sentiment, the wording or something else?

Regards,

[plantshop]

a good example today was a new user who decided to be rude for no real reason to a regular contributor today and his posts were pulled right away, I would hope that if he continues to behave in that way he will be banned.

That new user would be me. The posts were not pulled they were removed by me after appologising to Mike . I had no telling off from the great powers so it shows that there is still no moderation IMO

[Jan]

It wasn't you Eric, it was a different thread, you won't see the posts marked as moderated unless they are yours or you are a moderator. I don't think that your thread needed moderation, it was just a misunderstanding that sorted itself out quickly as you said.

Ironically, the people who have left were on the whole polite - particularly Norman, he was the perfect gentleman as far as I recall, so I just don't get it.

Regards,

[plantshop]

I think that part of the problem may be that the moderation is as you say invisible. People want to see it happening and which pots have been altered.

Other forums I visit every moderated post is anotated to show what has been changed. People who spend time posting don't want the uncertainty that in a few days time thier post could be changed without thier knowledge. If it's rude then yes it should be changed but ben has already said that moderators have been in changing posts. I don't know but I assume they people who posted were not notified of the changes.

It's a question of ownership and who owns the post. Actinic run the forum for the benifit of it's users that does not mean they own the content, that remains the property of the poster so in effect norm has the right to ask that every post he has made on this forum be removed. Now if the top 5 posters did that you would have a goast town here. Checkout recent issues on other similar message boards eg facebook who tried to sell members content and there was a revolt. IMO this is the same thing.

As you say the members who have left were on the whole polite and there has not been one post saying that people are glad they have gone.

[pinbrook]

Ironically, the people who have left were on the whole polite - particularly Norman, he was the perfect gentleman as far as I recall, so I just don't get it.

i think its the principle Jan.

There is nothing more annoying that making a long post only to get it pulled because the whole thread gets out of hand. I've lost several posts that were both polite and useful - i was told, because of a "Forum Bug"! - that pissed me off.

If there is to be moderation then parts of posts should be ************* rather than pulling the thread. That way we can all see who the offenders are.

[gabrielcrowe]

wtf?

nicely done actinic. nicely done, I salute you.

[Chunkford]

is that community something to do with magnets

[plantshop]

is that community something to do with magnets

You will get moderated with talk like that

[TonyParsons]

There are two sides to every story.

From the point of view of the regular posters they are unhappy with Ben's announcement as they see it as a ticking off towards them so they blame it on new members saying they are doing the complaining and aren't contributing enough. Well people have laid blame on both sides where rudeness is concerned and Ben seems to be asking for a general politeness from all quarters.

I for one am thankful that Actinic are asking for civility, it won't be welcomed by regulars but I know that there are many that will probably be agreeing with silent nods.

You can't have a community as large as this and not have some level of policing, however small, it just doesn't happen. The same as in real life society, nothing is completely ungoverned, because people want an element of government to protect them from certain things lest there be anarchy. Yet they object if anything is governed against them. You have to draw a line somewhere. And then people debate where the line is drawn. You can't have complete freedom and protection at the same time!

And here is the point of view you probably won't hear much. The reason you won't hear it much is that this is a very public arena and I've read from designers and end-users alike who aren't happy with the forum but they don't speak out about it in public and risk being belittled in front of the Actinic world so they either don't visit any more or they read and post sparingly, keeping their head down and not speaking out for fear of criticism.

I don't post regularly. I used to help myself under another account I forget the details of, before I got fed up with the constant "holier than thou" and rude attitude of a few people.

We're talking about having a bit of respect for the fellow man. Actinic could tighten up the posting procedure and those replying in anger should learn to lighten up. If someone hasn't searched first it's hardly the end of the world. Plenty manage to reply politely time and again without losing their rag. Rude or angry behaviour is often excused by those doing it as "frustration" or the fact they deal with these problems on a daily basis. These weak excuses don't make rude behaviour more acceptable.

Say that people who don't like rude posts should take it on the chin if you like. If that being the case then maybe people who don't like a call for politeness should take that on the chin too. It works both ways.

Tony.

[guccij]

a bit of respect for the fellow man

and woman

[plantshop]

I think if you search the forum you will find that it's the regulars who have been asking for better moderation. The problem is I think that actinic have gone about it the wrong way IMO.

Anyway it has worked in a way I suppose as all the regulars have gone to play elsewhere.