Bens post

[leehack]

Say that people who don't like rude posts should take it on the chin if you like. If that being the case then maybe people who don't like a call for politeness should take that on the chin too. It works both ways.

Isn't this the situation that already exists? Both moan about each other and nothing changes?

Regulars generally want people to search, not clog up the forum with repeat posts, don't take the pi$$, don't be demanding and give something back to the community when they can, whether that just be help on a site review.

Newbies generally want to post their problem, get it answered, sometimes with a step-by-step answer and move onto the next problem with minimal effort. This is a somewhat blinkered view on things, but also perfectly understandable at that stage.

These 2 people will rarely agree on things, they are opposite ends of a scale, at best they can hope to get along a bit better and be a bit more tolerant of each other. Each and every person out there has something that annoys or gets to them, it's human nature. Whether that is a rude regular on the forum or the kids kicking a ball up against the side of their house. EVERYONE has a breaking point, no rules or sledehammers to crack nuts will ever change that, that is human nature.

One thing that stands out considerably to me is the people who like to dictate how things should be, are generally the people who actually give nothing or very little back. They hide behind answers such as we don't want to get shouted down or we are scared to help. No community ever improved by turning a blind eye to problems, getting what you want and then leaving it to someone else to sort out - that is a recipe for disaster for any community. If you think it's bad, then group together and help change it, Together Everyone Achieves More.

Experienced user needs to think back to when they were a noob and be a bit more thoughtful for certain. A noob needs to consider how their actions impact on the regulars. If these two groups of people can take a look in from each others windows, I'm sure there will be all the understanding ever required.

[Orchid]

Totally agree with the above - the only thing I'd add is when telling a newbie that the information exists regulars should perhaps realise that newbies often don't know how to find that information - nothing is foolproof because fools are so damn ingenious.

I remember when I first joined the forum I saw "It's in the AUG" on a number of posts, like this reply would tell the poster everything they needed to know. It took me about three months to work out that the AUG stood for Advanced User Guide. Rather than some dialog in Actinic that I hadn't found yet.

[cbarling]

Agree with that, Lee.

The trigger for me was a thread where war looked like breaking out, Ben asked for restraint, but no one took any notice. I felt that we had to re-emphasise that we would enforce the forum rules.

It is me that has been approached (actually urged) to move on this issue by several people over a protracted time. Tony wasn't one of them, but their views all pretty much mirrored what he said.

Can I also make clear that this isn't aimed particualrly at the Noob issue. There have been many occurences of people being quite upset who were already forum regulars. Sadly, like Tony, they have tended to drop out afterwards.

My overall view is that this new approach will end up increasing forum traffic and helpfulness as well as making things more friendly. However, it's easy to blow it out of proportion. I doubt if many posts will be moderated or deleted in practise - people tend to follow the tone that's established.

Chris

[leehack]

I think I was part of the post you mention Chris and called a truce with the guy actually during the thread, I think the thread then went off in another direction after that point. We had clashed a number of times and until I looked back at his history and seen the amount of times, I honestly did not realise how often. I'm not sure any rules or moderation would have stopped that kicking off, but from it came a truce and an agreement to steer clear of each other in future. As mentioned before, I think threads and people tend to manage themselves out usually and hope that on the whole people manage themselves, whilst the forum moderators also accept a human element to proceedings.

[cbarling]

Thanks for the honesty, Lee. I deliberately didn't look for the thread and I honestly couldn't remember who was involved. I'm not looking to personalise anything.

Chris

[plantshop]

Iirc the thread ben refers to involved a long term member who had never posted any help but constantly wanted helping. He had been told by several regulars an answer to his problem over a period of two years but refused to listen. He then got involved with a scam and again regulars told him the answer but he kept on and on about it until he had an answer from an official source which matched the answer he had been given two years earlier.

In the end ruralweb told him he was being pig headed (no mention of being an idiot). This is what ben used as an example. I actually agree with ruralwebs description of the poster. If someone goes on and on like this then it's time for a moderator to step in and give the actinic view on the subject. This has been sadly lacking over the years IMO despite being asked for many times by regulars.

It is a pity it has come to this but as you say lee the regulars have stopped posting so the forum is clear for people like me to come out from hiding and have thier say, ask questions and post help to others just as I have done.

[grantglendinnin]

On a side note, statistically how much less posts has the forum received since the initial announcement from non-regular forum users? And how has this reflected on Support in terms of 'noob' questions being asked?

Perhaps we can have an additional Acronyms page on the forum. I like Lee's signature addition, this would help on "How do I make a backup?" "RTFM" "What is RTFM?" type threads.

[george]

Has Tracey been replaced (on the forum) yet?

[cbarling]

As far as I'm aware there has not been a reduction in activity on the forum, and it didn't seem to be the case for March. I will be able to tell you definitively at the end of April as I track postings on a monthly basis.

We are reviewing support for the forum, so watch this space. As you know, there have been quite a few changes at Actinic.

Chris

[guccij]

Has Tracey been replaced (on the forum) yet?

I guess the answer from CB means "no"

[plantshop]

Definately alot less posts IMO. I'll sign off now as I've decided on my alternative and had my say on here.

[leehack]

so the forum is clear for people like me to come out from hiding and have thier say, ask questions and post help to others just as I have done.

3 days of helping out isn't really going to cut it though, needs to be about 3 years .

Longevity of answering the same questions time after time is a good test for anyone. 90% of the people that like to point out how things should be done, would in fact adopt the style they do not like after a few hundred posts. It's just the way it is. If they didn't have tolerance levels that could be broken, they wouldn't have complained about the apparent rude posts in the first place .

[Duncan Rounding]

...the forum is clear for people like me to come out from hiding and have thier say, ask questions and post help to others just as I have done.

Definately alot less posts IMO. I'll sign off now as I've decided on my alternative and had my say on here.

I'm confused?

[Stereo Steve]

I welcome this. I have to say that this forum could be a pretty intimidating place sometimes for newbies and hope that this will now end with the recent 'developments'. It's a good idea not to make this personal but when all you can say is 'search the forum, it's been discussed many times' it's probably clear that it's time to move on for everyones benefit.

I have been invited to another place (or apparently 'followed them over there') but decided not to stay as there are less members to dilute the contempt and ignorance of the mighty ego himself.

I also think it's bad form to assume you know everything there is to know when some of your so called 'pro' designs look like a badger has been sick across the screen at higher resolutions. Or when your main SEO page on your site is not in the main google index and so on.

We all have something to learn and something to give. Whatever.

[leehack]

It's a good idea not to make this personal but when all you can say is 'search the forum, it's been discussed many times' it's probably clear that it's time to move on for everyones benefit.

Theory versus practice again? You think not getting personal is a good idea, yet you do so three times in the same post?

Your post in essence is the exact problem, simply a different point of view or different angle of looking in at things. You have been frustrated enough to post this, whereas the person you complain about is frustrated enough to get annoyed at the same old same old.

If we get into "your frustration is worse than my frustration" type arguments, it really will go nowhere. It's surely just about understanding and appreciation from different angles - that's all.

Your post is every bit as evocative as the points you are trying to address.